Thinking the loud THUD heard by Tim and Faith was more than likely the AIRBAG DEPLOYMENT. Please watch the video below found by Alex and listen to the sound this thing makes. It is unbelievably loud. And the FACT that the trees were not damaged at the scene correspond and fit into the big picture pretty well.
Tim Westman stated there was…..”an acceleration and a thud” or “A thud and an acceleration”
Also the FACT that Alex’s comment keeps getting removed from the podcast episode is surely a sign that someone does not like this theory……NOT AT ALL. Interesting for sure.
Comment below by Alex………….Thank You Sir.
I have posted the following comment on Episode 23 of the podcast at least 4 times now, in regard to the airbag itself possibly being the reason for the “spider crack”. The comment gets reported and deleted, and I have no idea why. This has happened at least 3 times and I have been assured it was not by Tim and Lance. Again, no idea who this comment would offend enough to continuously report. I will repost it there every time it’s taken down.
I will post it here too, in case you don’t read the comments over there. This isn’t hard proof of anything, just stuff to consider.
“I looked into this before as I read a quote from an accident investigator that the crack in the windshield was “100% from an airbag deploying”, though admittedly I was unable to again find this quote.
I did find a couple videos that interested me however. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS3anpPS0V4&w=640&h=390
This video shows a Saturn of the same year and model as Maura’s. In the video’s description it is stated that the vehicle was stationary at a traffic light and another driver ran into him. In this scenario I would think the driver of the Saturn would NOT have hit their head on the windshield. If you pause the video at 27 seconds you’ll see a “spider crack” nearly identical to the one in Maura’s windshield. I can’t say this wasn’t caused by other forces from the impact (or from damage at a later date) as I’m not qualified. I tried contacting the poster of the video for more information, but to no avail.
I also noted this video. https://youtu.be/OynkTk1fq_c?t=12s
This shows a Saturn airbag being deployed. I had honestly no idea they were that loud. To me, this could be a possible explanation for the sound heard by the witness(es) that claim to have heard the vehicle hit a tree.”
April 3, 2016 at 11:59 am
When I got hit years ago (their fault) I checked the back of an SUV right rear panel and that was enough to cause both airbags in my Lil’ Bo Peep ’95 Prizm to engage. It’s loud, kinda smells, and knocked me out for a very short time, say a minute to a minute-and-a-half. Glad they worked as planned.
They easily could’ve gone off at The Westman sideswipe which is why they were heard so easily. I absolutely believe it likely they caused the spider crack on the windshield. She still could’ve hit her head and knocked her hard enough to cause problems later.
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April 4, 2016 at 8:50 pm
YES I have had a few car accidents and the airbags seems to have gun powder in them they are wicked loud and if Maura had her window cracked that could be what the Westman’s heard,
I also find it very interesting that Alex’s posts are being removed…..we could have a “Hacker” following our blogs…..Maybe this “hacker” is the person that abducted Maura……This is very fishy….Alex you should keep posting that theory to see if it happens again…..If it does there must be a way to get IP addresses of persons who visit the site……You must visit the site to read the posts right? We could be on to something here…..
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April 4, 2016 at 9:09 pm
Lisa I don’t think it’s the work of any hacker or anything like that. I think it’s just someone that just doesn’t like me or what I’m saying (or the combination) and reports them so it goes above Tim and Lance. I also don’t think it’s being done by anyone involved in her disappearance, though that is intriguing to think about.
I had no idea trying to bring another local perspective to this case would bring the trolls and angry people out of the woodwork.
John made claims of having comments deleted as well (also not by T&L), and people called him a lunatic for it. The comment in question was on Episode 23 in response to user “Eyeseeyooh’s” question (toward the bottom of the comments). You can my response mentioning the first time it was deleted over 3 weeks ago. It was deleted again for the 3rd time 5 days ago and the one I reposted after has been up since.
Is this anything of importance in the grand scheme? I doubt it. But why that particular comment would irk someone so much is beyond me.
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April 3, 2016 at 3:28 pm
I know this is not directly linked to this thread (but a little bit). But something I’ve thought a lot about and is kind of important.
If we believe Marrotte and the Westmans (and shouldnøt we?) the Maura was at the scene from around 7:27 to somewhere between 7:40 and 7:46. And she is reported standing next to to Saturn and doing….well nothing.
That tells me something. Maura did not have plan and she wasen’t running away from something.
Lets try break it down.
Plans:
1: Going missing (alone): Makes no sense. What is waiting for. She have a plan. She is trying to go missing. Why stand and wait and do nothing for 13 to 19 minutes?
2: Go missing (tandem car): Well at first that makes sense. The reason for her waiting is that she waiting for the tandem car. But it is not likely. First the car have to have perfect timing so noone sees it or Maura getting in to the car. And neither Maura or the driver of the other car could know when people where looking or not looking at the scene. Secondly why didn’t Maura take her other bags with her. How many extra seconds are we talking about? 10-15 seconds. Why shouldn’t she take all her belongs with – after all she packed them back at UMAS. No, that makes no sense.
3. Suicide: She wanted to commit suicide – that was the plan all along. But then why wait. If that is what she ended up doing and it was the plan, then why wait. Do it.
No plans – improvising:
Maura have had an unplanned accident and know she is trying to improvise on the spot. Are there fysical things thats make her indicesive in many minutes?
A: Head injuries from accident: Na, we really don’t believe that. It wasn’t that big of an accident.
B: Airbag deployment: Maybe. But not confused for that many minutes.
C: Intoxicated, drunk: Atwoods never said anything about her behavior that surgest she being really drunk. Maybe a little tipsy. But nothing that should make her brain go in slow motion.
D: Drugs: Nothing we know of Maura point to that.
So I would say that apart from being a little choked and confused Mauras mind is working alright. So why wait. Is she thinking hard about an improvised plan?
I: DUI: She will not be there when police arrive – she is afraid of DUI. Then why wait? Why stand and wait and the police can be there any second. No Maura ain’t running away from a DUI. She would run away right away.
II: Suicide: She didn’t plan for suicide (in this case). But after the accident everything is too much. She wants to go into the woods and just fall asleep and never waking up. That is a big decision and could make her standing and thinking if this is what she really wants. But where are the footprints in the snow. They are not there. She should just go out into the woods where she is. No reason to walk/run away to do it some other place far away. No, that makes no sense.
No, Maura is waiting because she have no plans before (other than going to the White Mountains to think things through whatever that was troubeling her) and she isn’t making any improised plans.
So what happens? Maura see and hear the police car arriving. She really doesn’t want to get booked for DUI. She do not want to confront the police.
She hides. At Old Peters Road. Noone makes a search for her. And after a while all the commotion is over. Noone is looking at the road or scene anymore.
She simple walks either east on road 112. When a car is coming to her she hides behind a tree or a snow bank.
She is en good shape and it only about freezing. But its a lonely, dark, freightening walk to the east of 112.
So she hikes a car. Properly not a serialkiller or an opportunistic killer. Just a loser.
Stupid things happens in the car. The man (we guess its a man) wants more from Maura than she will give to him (sex). He gets angry and things turn bad. He kills her.
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April 3, 2016 at 3:34 pm
Again, sorry for my english. English is not my native language.
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April 3, 2016 at 6:21 pm
Respectfully, I think that if one were to strike their head, the results are pretty individual, you might not always lose consciousness but it might confuse things for a while. There is a very good chance that she could have struck her head on the drivers side window.
Small towns in NH and New England have many secrets. Witnesses or the people who called for emergency services could have remained silent out of fear. Fear is a strong emotion and when you have roots in town, fear is a strong motivator to look the other way. It takes a strong person who can take an ethical stance to make a change in the milieu of the small town, good ole boys atmosphere. I think fear can prompt a person to change or forget what they may have initially said.
Unfortunately, everyone is neighbors and friends in town which makes it that much harder to discern all the facts.
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April 4, 2016 at 9:07 am
Alex, I approved another of your comments that somehow filtered into our ‘review for spam’ folder. So it should be up there now. Sorry that keeps happening, I assure you that Lance and I are not removing the comments.
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April 4, 2016 at 9:13 am
Thanx Tim
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April 4, 2016 at 9:21 am
Thanks for clarifying Tim. Again, I have never thought it was either of you who removed my comment.
I wonder if there’s a way to contact YouTube to find out why certain comments were reported? It certainly didn’t violate the comment guidelines of Youtube at all.
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April 4, 2016 at 9:23 am
As far as I can see (just read the guidelines) it means multiple people have reported it as spam? How odd. That means someone must be targeting your comments or a specific type of comment (that happens to have been made by you).
Interesting in itself.
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April 4, 2016 at 9:37 am
There were other comments of mine taken down under the same circumstances, and the thing they all had in common was that they mentioned certain witnesses by name (always the same witnesses). Though the names are discussed in the video themselves, so I saw no issue.
Once I realized what the comments had in common, I edited the name out and just used ‘witness’ instead. I was thinking maybe this was interpreted as violating the “Don’t disclose personal information” rule about Youtube comments, even though it really doesn’t.
I’d like to see the actual reason given by whomever reported them, as i don’t feel it’s inflammatory, threatening, or anything else along those lines, especially this comment in particular.
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April 4, 2016 at 8:57 pm
What if it wasnt reported and this Person you named is a hacker or has someone they are paying to be a hacker…..it can happen………..
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April 4, 2016 at 9:29 am
Thanks a lot. I’ll send an email to YT about it. It’s probably the Voldemort of bloggers or a disciple of his flagging it with multiple accounts. Not sure why someone would target that comment specifically though. Odd.
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April 4, 2016 at 12:32 pm
I hadn’t given this much thought lately…
I completely agree with the amount of commotion an airbag can generate.
About a year ago I had come home from work late at night and was enjoying a cold beverage in my living room when I heard what sounded like a gunshot coming from the north end of my street, which stands to reason considering the level of drug activity there. A co-worker had joined me for the drink and we were both surprised and astonished at whatever had occurred.
I stepped outside and police were already on the scene — there was a car collision at the intersection about 150 feet away from my house on the opposite end of the street that I thought I heard it coming from.
That was my first experience in how loud those things can possibly be — there’s no way that the cars hitting sounded like THAT.
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April 4, 2016 at 9:00 pm
Like I told Mac bag then older cars had Gun Powder used to deploy airbags. T
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April 4, 2016 at 2:07 pm
Wasn’t sure where to post this but was wondering why Renner seems so eager to discount the Glynn brothers scenario?
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April 4, 2016 at 3:55 pm
It’s probably as simple as the Glynns’ would-be involvement doesn’t fit with MM going to Canada, eh?
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April 4, 2016 at 4:08 pm
Firstly, there’s not much info to go on, or really all that much that ever pointed to them, I don’t think. I have never thought that Walter Glynn’s truck, with NH plates, was the same one seen by WR that night, supposedly sporting MA plates. In a later post Renner states he believes WR and that the truck in question actually WAS from MA.
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-red-truck-revised.html
Now, with his book release pending, I think it’s highly unlikely Renner gives much credence to ANY theory that doesn’t involve Maura still being alive and having run off.
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April 5, 2016 at 8:32 am
Maybe this is because I’m a girl and a bit sensitive to the cold, but I always thought the fact that Maura was evidently “shivering” when Butch Atwood spoke to her has been a bit overlooked. It was only about 34 F that night. Supposedly she was wearing a jacket. So it seems to me that either she hadn’t been driving long enough for the car to warm up, or she had been sitting there waiting for longer than we think — particularly so if she’d been drinking a bit. Also, did Butch ever mention the airbag smoke or anything about the airbag having been deployed? I agree that the thud TW heard could have been the airbag at the corner, but I also think it could have been deployed during a crash earlier in the day (maybe at Swiftwater Road), therefore when she crashed on 112, she had only been driving for a short time. Last thing, which probably isn’t relevant but I found interesting — I believe that model Saturn was the #1 most stolen car in 2003 (1 out of every 200 or something).
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April 5, 2016 at 1:05 pm
Edlma, I was doing some reading up on this, because even though Atwood’s accounts were different (or at least reported that way) as noted by John Healy, I thought there was one where Atwood said he saw the airbags deployed, but I haven’t been able to find one yet where he did.
There is also definitely the possibility it was deployed prior to the accident at the corner.
One of the things that is different in the many reports of what Atwood saw that night was whether or not Maura appeared intoxicated. I found this just now trying to find the airbag quote, in the same article that mentions the shivering:
http://projectjason.org/forums/topic/350-missing-woman-maura-murray-nh-02092004/#entry2617
“Atwood said Murray didn’t appear to be intoxicated, despite police having said a witness indicated she had appeared to be impaired due to alcohol.”
I wonder who this other witness is supposed to be if it wasn’t Atwood? Or if there was one at all?
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April 5, 2016 at 1:14 pm
Well….We do know they were cut out and Haverhill said they did it from what I recall.
The pix does show the steering wheel airbag had been deployed and it was removed. Did the deployment happen at the WBC or somewhere else is a good question.
I am beginning to doubt all the info from the scene bc of all the inconsistencies and crazy stories. #001 being the biggest one. This cannot be denied.
WHY WHY WHY WHY…..and WTF..!
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April 5, 2016 at 1:26 pm
The “shivering” was also mentioned in the Whitman-Hanson Express article series as well. As is this:
https://mauramurrayblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/whitman-hanson-express-maura-is-missing-series.pdf
“Maura struggled to get out of her Saturn because the car door was hitting against a snowbank, Atwood recalled when interviewed for this story…”
Though a few paragraphs earlier:
“John Marrotte told the same story to private investigator John Healy after the incident and added that he believed he saw Maura’s car back up parallel to the road, indicated by the car’s rear lights.
While the Marrottes were watching from their kitchen window they observed another neighbor arrive on the scene in a school bus.”
My friend that drove by that night (the e-mail read on the podcast) mentioned that the Saturn was definitely NOT up against the snowbank when she drove by, and was a good way into the road. So I definitely believe the Marrote’s account as far as that is concerned.
But the way it reads, Atwood would have arrived AFTER she backed out of the snowbank so him saying that is odd. Unless they saw her back up after Atwood left, and it just reads the other way to me.
Just an observation.
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April 5, 2016 at 10:50 am
Interesting about it being one of the most common stolen cars.
As for Maura shivering, I always assumed it was more of a reaction to just crashing her car, more like a scared shiver instead of a cold shiver. I’ve spun out a car before and I was shaking like a leaf, adrenaline is an interesting hormone.
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April 5, 2016 at 8:19 pm
The impression I got was that the shivering was from the cold. That’s true though – it could have been from adrenaline. Butch even said she appeared “shook up.” I’m sort of new to the blogging/commenting world, so apologies if my questions or comments are repetitive. For all I know this may be common, but one thing I find unusual is how Maura’s BOL description changed slightly yet specifically – from 5’5″/black hair to 5’7″/brown hair. It’s possible her sister or father could have been slightly off about her height. But they would not have mistaken her hair color. So that description had to have come from someone who saw her (or thinks they did). Given the information I’m aware of, that would have to be either Butch Atwood or John Monaghan.
At first I considered it highly unlikely that it wasn’t Maura who crashed on 112. But knowing more now, and given that 1) the Saturn’s presumable destination [somewhere east] does not correspond to the directions Maura had printed [northwest toward Burlington, VT]; 2) Butch didn’t think it was Maura when shown her picture; 3) he claimed she was wearing her hair down (very atypical); and 4) possibly referred to her hair as “black,” I put the odds a lot higher now. Plus we know she stopped for gas, and assuming she paid in cash, the attendant (or anyone else nearby) could have taken note of the big wad of cash she had on her after the withdrawal she made from her account earlier.
If I understand correctly, it seems like there are three main theories regarding what happened to Maura (abduction; suicide/accidental death; runaway). I have to think that given the secrecy of the NHSP, the classification as an open investigation, and [at least early on], the Asst. AG comment suggesting there was a 75% chance criminal charges would be filed in this case, the latter two seem substantially less likely. But at the same time, I’m finding it less and less plausible that the criminal charge they alluded to would be as cut and dry as an abduction by an opportunistic killer who happened to be rolling down 112 at just the right time. I don’t rule it out. But what seems more logical from my perspective is that if there was some “crime of opportunity,” I have to think it was more along the lines of some combination of robbery (for cash), theft (her car), and temporary/unplanned kidnapping and/or injury, which ultimately results in accidental or deliberate homicide. Besides drinking and driving (the evidence of which I actually do not find convincing at all), one other really good reason to flee the scene of car wreck is because you had been driving a stolen car.
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April 6, 2016 at 11:20 am
The first BOLO issued for Maura was for 5’7″ this was issued by Cecil Smith about 8 minutes after he arrived on scene. I’ve always wondered where that information came from.
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April 6, 2016 at 12:10 pm
It has to be Butch Atwood……..
Or they obtained the information in some other manner. Drivers license or some type of paperwork in the Saturn…..Oh yeah, the Saturn was locked…..Or was it..?
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April 6, 2016 at 2:09 pm
John I think the cops did jimmy her door seeking more info on the driver … as to whether or not this is standard procedure I do not know. Again, because they had no idea this would become a protracted missing person case than a simple DUi I have no clue as to what would’ve been proper here. This is probably at the point Sue Champy passed by. We have to assume this is reasonable simply because they have no clue who Maura is and don’t want to waste time just looking for any random woman.
In my opinion, I’d say it was fine to get more info but TOUCH NOTHING ELSE. I find this far less a fault in the investigation than the very sketchy behavior later exhibited at the garage.
I think in some ways the cops did good things but because of the nature of how the thing went down later that week they did some stupid stuff to cover their butts.
Without a doubt, from a reporting aspect, the exclusion of witnesses and officials on site, on duty or not, was another huge mistake. That begs inquiry. Sloppy? Well I’m sure there’s routine engrained sloppiness because it saves time, cuts corners. Professionals of all stripes do it because doing everything “by the book” takes time, and time means money. This is outside whatever type of force the Chief was responsible for at the time. This applies to every organization public or private under the sun. Natch: “Do as we say not as we do.”
Not sure what to make of the search either, but I think largely it seems proper. Perhaps the jurisdiction dust-up plays a big factor as to why they didn’t search east. But again, that would’ve been under the authority of the state. Who from the state was present? Yup. Not saying there’s anything suspicious but it’s odd. Sure would like to know too the why from the horse’s mouth. I’ve never seen any explanation official or otherwise. It’s a good question, worthy of public surrender, yet no one seems to volunteer this. It’s a valid question.
Of course, she’s still missing.
Lastly, one BIG discrepancy in her description bothers me as well: black hair, then brown hair. I know the light was poor, but … did the cops unintentionally lead Butch’s memory? Makes me wonder too.
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April 7, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Wouldn’t they have to unlock the door so they could tow the vehicle? Doesn’t it have to be in neutral or something?
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April 8, 2016 at 7:46 am
Not one they are hauled on a flatbed / rolloff
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April 6, 2016 at 2:05 pm
Doing more reading on Atwood’s accounts and though I’m sure this is old news to some, but I have become increasingly convinced that even though his accounts vary on certain points, Atwood NEVER said Maura was intoxicated, and this claim was completely invented by police, and only ever put forth by them, as I started to point out yesterday. And yes, I know this is absolutely “tin foil hat” talk to some.
In an article dated 2/15/2004:
https://mauramurrayblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/select-boston-globe-articles-on-maura-murray.pdf
“A witness told local police Murray appeared to have been intoxicated at the time of the crash…”
Yet from an article dated 2/27/2004:
http://missing87975.yuku.com/topic/3415/NH-MISSING-STUDENT-MAURA-MURRAY
“Atwood said Murray didn’t appear to be intoxicated, despite police having said a witness indicated she had appeared to be impaired due to alcohol.”
Atwood was the only witness to ever interact with Maura enough to have determined whether or not she would have been intoxicated. The Westmans, Marrottes, etc. never claimed she was intoxicated (or to have been able to see the scene clearly enough to determine that from their vantage points), and if it wasn’t Atwood, who else could it have been? I don’t think there was one.
Also, every account I can find of Atwood’s mentions the car being up against the snowbank. I’d really like to know if the Marrottes saw the reverse lights comes on before or after they saw Atwood leave the scene, just to clear that part up.
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April 7, 2016 at 9:04 am
Busted up box of wine in the back seat with red liquid stains around the interior of the car at the scene of an accident where the driver is missing which in most cases the driver is evading police due to being intoxicated and after moving the car soda bottle smelling of alcohol is found under the car….
I hardly call that inventing the driver being intoxicated angle, and it is certainly not “completely inventing” that scenario.
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April 7, 2016 at 9:30 am
But LE made up the story about the Saturn hitting the tree at the scene.
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April 7, 2016 at 12:29 pm
I’m not saying they didn’t have reason to suspect that she may have been intoxicated, Bill, but they certainly seem to have invented the witness account that she “seemed intoxicated”. Atwood said he never said this, even though it was reported that police said he did.
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April 7, 2016 at 12:32 pm
Great point Alex
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April 7, 2016 at 12:33 pm
Suspecting someone may have left a scene intoxicated is much different than stating a witness saw her intoxicated. And if Atwood never saw this, as he claimed, then either it was invented by police, or there was another witness that interacted with Maura that we’ve never heard about, and I don’t believe the latter scenario took place.
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April 6, 2016 at 2:37 pm
I can’t help but think they know who they were after all along…
“Where’s the girl?”
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April 6, 2016 at 2:47 pm
Boots: To me, that’s a statement that could’ve been bounced around the timeline so I don’t place much suspicion to it, since no one official or otherwise can say what was done or said at a certain time.
Hey, I could be wrong.
Frankly, we may be chasing our tails on this point since the timeline’s been screwed since Day 1. Only further concrete evidence can forward the effort. Moot.
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April 6, 2016 at 4:18 pm
Hi Mac,
If we only KNEW anything…
I just find it odd that they knew so quickly that Fred Murray’s Saturn was being driven by someone other than him, considering HE didn’t even hear about what occurred at the WBC for hours and hours.
From what I understand, Fred was informed about the situation by Kathleen.
I may have read or understand the answers to these questions before, I apologize if this is old or irrelevant:
Was Kathleen contacted by LE first?
How did they know even to contact HER?
Please don’t read entitlement into this, just wondering.
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April 7, 2016 at 7:57 am
hey Boot I asked the same thing previously… car registered to fred, no ID or wallet in the vehicle (right?) the answer I got was – unable to reach FM (the owner) “they” contacted UMass & got MM’s emergency contact info & called her sister that was listed. BUT how did “they” know M was driving the car & not Fred Jr, Kathleen, Julie, Kurt, or me? Fred couldda loaned his car to anyone…….. Ive always wondered if there was a BOLO issued by LE & not necessarily NH. 😉
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April 7, 2016 at 8:00 am
which might also explain the various LE depts (PD, County, State) that were involved that nite….
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April 7, 2016 at 9:06 am
But who set things in motion with LE?
(Was somebody concerned about MM and contacted LE? Or was LE on the lookout for her the entire time since Amherst?)
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April 7, 2016 at 9:13 am
There was a UMASS parking sticker on the window. Its not a stretch to think they called UMASS, gave them the sticker number and asked if they had a student there with that car and plate number. Add that to Butch’s call to GCSD about a female driver, it adds up.
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April 7, 2016 at 9:20 am
Thanks Bill!
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April 7, 2016 at 9:29 am
They did not call UMASS on Mon. the 9th.
The only way they knew it was a girl driving was bc of Atwood’s statements to Sgt. Smith.
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April 7, 2016 at 7:09 pm
i get the sticker thing. lotsa junkers have them… I still wonder if a BOLO was issued from Mass. ….52 phone calls.
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April 7, 2016 at 8:15 pm
MJ, could you explain the 52 phone calls?
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April 8, 2016 at 7:50 am
Billy’s cell records were pretty low call days up until the 2 days b4 maura disappeared and the on the 8th there was 24 calls, the 9th there were 52 calls and on the 1oth there were 62 calls. Billy was frantic calling everyone b4 he even knew MM was missing.
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April 7, 2016 at 2:19 pm
Maybe a BOLO issued in the Lebanon or Hanover NH area? Why won’t they release those records?
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April 8, 2016 at 12:27 pm
I meant, a BOLO issued/triggered by someone knowing M was headed to NH
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April 6, 2016 at 8:02 pm
Theresa, you’re right. To clarify (and correct me if I’m wrong) another BOL went out around 12:21 PM (Feb 10) that said “waiting on descriptors of individual” followed by “black hair shoulder length. wearing dark coat about 5’5″, 120 pounds”
Re: the drinking and driving – I have to think when a driver flees the scene, and there is an open box of container in clear view (spilled or not), it’s only natural to jump to the conclusion that someone had been drinking and driving and fled to avoid a DUI. But as far as I can tell, there isn’t clear evidence. I think crashing the Toyota a few nights before compounds that theory, but even if alcohol had been a factor in the first crash, there’s a big difference between someone who was drinking at a party on a Saturday night then decided to drive ‘home,’ which was only a few miles away, and someone who is drinking while driving early in the evening and around another state for hours and by themselves. You can not equate the two behaviors/decision-processes. Of course that could have been what she was doing, but I’m not convinced. Especially since she hadn’t run or worked out yet that day (as far as we know).
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April 7, 2016 at 10:55 am
1940
GCSD log notes FW’s call at 1927, no mention of a female.
1948
GCSD log notes the 1943 call from BA’s home, specifically “one female…but no idea where the female is.”
Additionally, the log notes Smith’s arrival on-scene at 1946.
In the HPD report, Smith notes that a witness (BA) advised that “there was a young female behind the wheel and there were no other people in the vehicle.”
So is it possible that Smith didn’t have the dispatch info before speaking with BA?
I could probably determine this for myself if I had a better understanding of the time notations in the log. Do the times 1940 & 1948 indicate the time this info was placed into the log? Or do they indicate when dispatch relayed the info to Smith/ on-duty LE? Did HPD cops have radios on their person or would he have to be in the cruiser for this?
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April 7, 2016 at 11:09 am
Additionally, after further consideration, since this has been brought up before:
Taking 17 minutes to get to the scene might be a handy way to insure that it looked like he had the dispatch info before making it to the WBC.
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April 7, 2016 at 2:10 pm
The reports show he was dispatched from the station. My understanding is that means he was in the station when the call came in. 7:30 is a common time for the 4-midnight shift to eat dinner.
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April 7, 2016 at 2:16 pm
So I worked at a police department in 2006, our dispatch had a button on the computer to press when they did things and that produced a “time stamp” in the log… You could then go back in and back fill the log, but you couldn’t change the time. Officers would use their radio to state, “I’m out” or “I’m on scene” SOMETIMES they would say this before they were on scene, think of a setup toon you are going to start running the second your car stops, house fire, major car accident, or they would forget, and do it after they arrived, this is less common, but it does happen.
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April 7, 2016 at 2:54 pm
Good stuff, thanks!
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April 7, 2016 at 8:37 pm
Were there any hit and runs between Amherst,MA and Haverhill,NH that day? I know that is a big area to cover, but THAT could explain the BOLO and the damage. I’ve wondered if Maura was involved in a previous hit and run, NOT the Vasi one, but maybe one a few days earlier, and THAT is why Fred was in Amherst.
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April 8, 2016 at 4:23 pm
“Billy’s cell records were pretty low call days up until the 2 days b4 maura disappeared and the on the 8th there was 24 calls, the 9th there were 52 calls and on the 1oth there were 62 calls. Billy was frantic calling everyone b4 he even knew MM was missing.”
I have always wondered what was going down on those days leading up to MMs disappearance. Clearly something was happening and i believe whatever that was played a big part in why Maura chose to go off to NH when she did. In all the interviews i have seen of Billy, his Mom is ALWAYS present and pretty much does ALL the talking…..simply painting a picture of perfection (which we know was not the reality of their relationship). I just don’t find either of them to be remotely genuine or forthcoming so who knows what was really going on and how much that played into Mauras mental state on that fateful night. I find it weird that Billys mom is so overbearing and prominent in the interviews….way more so than her son, i feel like they both tried way too hard to paint this false picture of perfection. They make me uncomfortable just watching them!
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April 8, 2016 at 5:56 pm
I agree
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April 12, 2016 at 8:40 pm
I agree. When I watch the Disappeared episode, the interview of Billy & his mother looks like this was a case of “Billy you shut up and let me do the talking”. Like she didn’t want him to say something “wrong”. After all, he had a lot to lose being at West Point.
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April 12, 2016 at 9:19 pm
“I agree. When I watch the Disappeared episode, the interview of Billy & his mother looks like this was a case of “Billy you shut up and let me do the talking”. Like she didn’t want him to say something “wrong”. After all, he had a lot to lose being at West Point.”
100% agree!!! There is so much weirdness there!
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April 8, 2016 at 9:12 pm
It appears that comment has once again been removed. The comment in question was on Episode 23, in response to user “Eyeseeyooh’s” statement that she “obviously hit a tree” (toward the bottom of the comments). You can see my responses mentioning the deleted comment are still there, but the comment itself isn’t.
Is it there for anyone else, and just disappearing for me? I just can’t fathom why this one comment continues to vanish. It’s not like it’s damning information, or anything. Is it?
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April 9, 2016 at 7:52 am
WTF
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April 9, 2016 at 1:12 am
“It appears that comment has once again been removed. The comment in question was on Episode 23, in response to user “Eyeseeyooh’s” statement that she “obviously hit a tree” (toward the bottom of the comments). You can see my responses mentioning the deleted comment are still there, but the comment itself isn’t.
Is it there for anyone else, and just disappearing for me? I just can’t fathom why this one comment continues to vanish. It’s not like it’s damning information, or anything. Is it?”
FormerlyKnownAsAlex: Nope I can’t see your comments either! That is so bizarre! I wonder what exactly they are having an issue with. Are your comments that keep getting deleted all regarding the same topic or is it varying? I know it seemed previously that any mention of the Westmans was getting deleted, is this related? Very strange!
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April 9, 2016 at 6:35 am
The comment that has been continuously deleted is the one John quoted in the airbag blog post. I’ve saved it so I can copy and paste it when it’s deleted. This is the fourth time this particular one has been deleted. I have other comments up in that same reply thread (to “Eyeseeyooh”) that are still there from a month ago that mention when it was first deleted, those have never been touched.
Once I thought the deletions were due to the mention of the witness names, now I just think it’s personal, and someone who doesn’t like me (a list that seems to be growing for whatever reason), as John posted a link to this blog article on that same episode that calls out said witnesses, by name, and that comment remains untouched.
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April 9, 2016 at 7:54 am
This is very odd…..strange to say the least.
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April 9, 2016 at 8:28 am
Constantly deleting those comments speaks volumes IMO. But WHY!!
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April 9, 2016 at 11:06 am
Spot on. Troll. I doubt it’s LE. As we know The Big Tree Theory is not a big factor in the case, I chalk it up to a Cap’n Annoying type who is out there to frustrate and is possibly one of several (one?) persons responsible for some of the bombastic “revelatory” posts out there.
I think The Podcast Guys oughta complain to YouTube® that this person is a spammer.
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April 9, 2016 at 8:56 pm
I think I know exactly who’s deleted your comments alex. It’s very obvious.
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April 9, 2016 at 8:58 pm
“I think I know exactly who’s deleted your comments alex. It’s very obvious.”
Ooh please do tell….
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April 9, 2016 at 11:00 pm
TM: Lessee … is the question to the answer, “Who couldn’t let go of the tree argument on The MMM Facebook page?”
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April 10, 2016 at 12:56 am
I don’t want to say his name because it will start a lot of drama, let’s just say he’s not a fan of Alex for some weird reason. Just my opinion.. it could be a few ppl I guess. The whole thing is just bizarre.
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April 9, 2016 at 11:34 pm
Interesting. http://listverse.com/2016/01/20/10-missing-persons-cases-with-incredibly-odd-endings
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April 10, 2016 at 8:58 am
FormerlyKnownAsAlexC I just sent it 🙂
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April 10, 2016 at 3:53 pm
A friend of mine also just brought this video to my attention, also showing only the deployment of an airbag cracking a windshield. The car in this video is not a Saturn, but this is another example of how airbag deployment by itself can break windshields. Some people think that is impossible.
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April 10, 2016 at 4:01 pm
great example….Thanx Alex
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April 10, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Asloknownasmike, ppft my scarf, what’s so bad about my scarf? I love my scarfs tell him to leave them alone 🙂
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April 10, 2016 at 6:10 pm
Is there going to be another searchance for maura anytime soon?
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April 10, 2016 at 6:10 pm
Search*
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April 11, 2016 at 8:27 pm
I’m no fan of Facebook for a multitude of reasons, one of which is Timeline functionality, can anybody please explain it? Makes no sense whatsoever. In my mind, one starts with the most recent commentary and works back in time. The Timeline is all over the place. Why the Facebook model is so popular escapes this surfer. Even the dumbsh!t redesign of Google’s YouTube® commentary section hasn’t defeated, yet. THAT said, I noticed a past post there just now, I found it interesting enough to share in case you’ve not read it:
“I went to Plymouth State and took a forensic science class there. We had a day where state police and state crime lab people came to do a presentation. A classmate asked about Maura, as it had been recent. They both insisted that it was probably a case of her running away from her life and if she wanted to be found, she would. Made me angry because it was almost scripted. I asked if they could tell us more about what they’d done at the scene about fingerprints, etc. They said they followed procedure but they’re fairly certain it was staged.
I doubt they even tried. They failed her from the start.”
I know this follow’s Renner’s narrative. But even Dick Guy said something tantamount to the same without actually saying, “This scene was staged, folks.” John thinks as much too. This whole scene is as queer as a red duck.
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April 11, 2016 at 8:31 pm
Y’know, we REALLY need an edit button here. I SWEAR I can write properly. Just don’t take MY word for it.*
*”follow’s” W.T.F.
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April 12, 2016 at 9:37 am
yep. That comment from Dick Guy has always bugged me too.
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April 11, 2016 at 9:12 pm
What’s this?
Posted by “MurkyWaters” at Websleuths this morning. Commentary follows.
“Interesting video. Especially at the end of the video where he lists other unexplained/explained deaths and disappearances in the Haverhill, NH area.
The first was Pauline Clark, at the lodge? found dead in a stream. I can’t find anything online concerning her death. Maybe I’m spelling her name wrong.
Tom Conrad, Murdered on September 28th, 2005 in Pike, NH. He was shot multiple times as he arrived home. Unsolved http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg…&GRid=82323856
Christopher Gray, Murdered – Haverhill, NH. http://www.wcax.com/story/11208584/m…s-plead-guilty
Dennis Toll, Missing – Haverhill, NH I can’t find anything on him either.
Dion Nelson Missing – Haverhill, NH I can’t find anything on him either.”
My comments: OK, Christopher Gray, the challenged fellow murdered by acquaintances. Read it.
Tom Conrad, duh.
Pauline Clark? I believe Murky’s mixed up somebody, because a Pauline Clark indeed died fairly recently at The Cottage, but assuming of old age.
Of the others, comments? Possibilities?
In other news, I reviewed part of John’s rebuttal video. I think “Witness A” and “gvmeabk” are in the same position. Marginalized.
What part of, “Mam, you did not see what you THINK you saw that night.”, doesn’t sound suspicious?
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April 12, 2016 at 7:53 am
Where is this video….??
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April 12, 2016 at 8:17 am
It’s your rebuttal to the spreecast, John.
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April 12, 2016 at 8:21 am
Oh………Someone else must have put it on Websleuths….that is why I was confused.
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April 12, 2016 at 8:19 am
It’s at this link near the bottom of the page: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?295143-NH-Maura-Murray-21-Haverhill-9-Feb-2004-13/page26
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April 12, 2016 at 8:34 am
Pauline Clark was found deceased at the Mtn. Lakes lodge in a very small stream. Her purse was found 150′ upstream and about 75′ from the stream. The stream was not deep or fast enough to carry a body down to the location where it was found. They ruled it an accident and said she fell into the stream and washed down. IT DID NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY.!!!!!!
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April 12, 2016 at 8:35 am
Where and how does “Gvmebk” fit into this part of this..?
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April 12, 2016 at 9:13 am
Mac, Pauline Clark is a case that’s tough to find anything about online. In fact I don’t think I’ve ever found any articles on it, only a couple mentions.
Supposedly she was found dead in an extremely shallow stream near the lodge where the 2/9 meeting was held, which was a ski area up until about 1990. I believe she was found sometime around then, but again, I don’t have many details. As I understand it, her death was ruled an “accidental drowning” but it didn’t appear that way. This lodge is also literally a stone’s throw from the “A-Frame House”.
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April 12, 2016 at 9:20 am
“Supposedly she was found dead in an extremely shallow stream near the lodge where the 2/9 meeting was held, which was a ski area up until about 1990. I believe she was found sometime around then, but again, I don’t have many details. As I understand it, her death was ruled an “accidental drowning” but it didn’t appear that way. This lodge is also literally a stone’s throw from the “A-Frame House”.”
Has the A frame House ever been officially investigated do we know? So much has been said online about it but what do we know as fact about it? Has it been officially ruled out as having anything to do with Maura, or is this just yet another thing we simply do not know due to LEs lack of info sharing?
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April 12, 2016 at 9:27 am
The A-Frame has NOT been looked at by NHSP. The PI’s from NHLI took carpet samples but I believe they dropped the ball on this as well. John Healey was the man in charge supposedly but he is a retired NHSP Troop F trooper.
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April 12, 2016 at 9:32 am
“The A-Frame has NOT been looked at by NHSP. The PI’s from NHLI took carpet samples but I believe they dropped the ball on this as well. John Healey was the man in charge supposedly but he is a retired NHSP Troop F trooper.”
This for me is yet another one of those REALLY frustrating aspects of the case! I just cannot understand why this was not officially looked into…i mean hell, the work was practically done for them, they had samples ready and waiting! It makes absolutely NO sense to me whatsover!! It could have been so easily looked into and ruled in or out, yet here we are 12 years later still wondering ….. Where is the logic!!
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April 12, 2016 at 9:34 am
Logic…….Hmmmmmmm
Must not be part of the training here in NH. Ughhhhhh
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April 12, 2016 at 9:36 am
“Logic…….Hmmmmmmm
Must not be part of the training here in NH. Ughhhhhh”
Haha it would seem so unfortunately! Especially where this case is concerned anyway!
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April 12, 2016 at 9:25 am
Yeah…..Pauline’s case was not well publicized unfortunately. I will say that I have friend who knows the person she was dating at the time. Of course he has since died. He did live within a few miles of the Lodge. Just saying..!
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April 11, 2016 at 9:36 pm
What’s this?
This morning, “Murkywaters” posted the following at Websleuths:
“Interesting video. Especially at the end of the video where he lists other unexplained/explained deaths and disappearances in the Haverhill, NH area.
“The first was Pauline Clark, at the lodge? found dead in a stream. I can’t find anything online concerning her death. Maybe I’m spelling her name wrong.
“Tom Conrad, Murdered on September 28th, 2005 in Pike, NH. He was shot multiple times as he arrived home. Unsolved http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg…&GRid=82323856
“Christopher Gray, Murdered – Haverhill, NH. http://www.wcax.com/story/11208584/m…s-plead-guilty
“Dennis Toll, Missing – Haverhill, NH I can’t find anything on him either.
“Dion Nelson Missing – Haverhill, NH I can’t find anything on him either.”
My commentary: Pauline Clark? He may be right, he/she could’ve gotten the name wrong, ‘cuz a Pauline Clark indeed did die in 2013, at The Cottage, presumably of old age.
Christopher Gray: I know this. He was the challenge retail employee “dispatched” by unfriendly acquaintances.
Tom Conrad: Duh.
The others? I dunno. You all have to fill in the blanks here.
To continue, I reviewed part of John’s rebuttal. The takeaway? “Witness A” and “gvmeabk” are afraid for good reason. Why? Try this, when “Witness A” called in her concerns to the local police, she was rebuffed, the responder saying what she saw was impossible as the SUV #001 was “not in service” that night. Anybody remember an earlier post of mine that seems to confirm that “#001 was out of commission that night”? Yeah … well, “Witness A” called a second time in 2006 after being bugged by local chatter, this time to the NHSP, thinking she would catch a sympathetic ear. The cryptic response? “Ma’am, I don’t know what you think you saw that night, but you could not have seen the SUV; whatever you think you saw, it did not happen.”
Your move.
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April 12, 2016 at 12:23 pm
I had a thought while reading this, what IF, Haverhill 001 wasn’t in service that night, it really was at the garage, where do the police say it was being repaired? Is it possible that one of the mechanics decided to take it for a little spin? Speed through town with blue lights on? Sounds like fun, until you try to turn off the blue lights and instead turn off the headlights, and maybe all lights, on a corner maybe? I don’t know… I do know this is ALL SPECULATION, just thinking out loud… Trying to fit the pieces together.
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April 12, 2016 at 6:04 pm
Theresa, not impossible, but we do know two officers traded vehicles that afternoon and since there’s no official record of Williams’ activity around 7pm we can’t verify it wasn’t in his possession either. We do know #001 was described as “out of commission” that night and it was in for repairs a few days or weeks following her disappearance.
Yup, this case is a puzzle kicked across the floor.
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April 12, 2016 at 11:52 am
sammyh85 “AFrame has not been looked into by NHSP” & “Where is the logic!!” This & all the other pull-your-hair-out-questions have the same common denominator. It smells like LE has been told/advised/ordered NOT to pursue – why else would the ball have been dropped sooooo many times in this case. Either that or it means local AND state all were completely inept ~which just doesn’t ring true. Its like they purposely looked away, put forth zero effort, & let it ride……. like they were given marching orders to just let the dust settle. Smart people in this group, forum, following, etc I wish y’all would try to chew on it from that angle. Like him or lump him Renner’s spot on in the last podcast – with allllllll the unexplained info & drama that is known about the months prior to Rte112 – being abducted by a random nut is awful hard to swallow. ….EVER try to quietly & easily get a 2yr old into a car seat that refuses to go? Now picture a athletic, young, WP trained cadet, into a car w/o anyone seeing or hearing anything. TWestman confirmed there were cars up & down that road during that period of time (if you believe TWestman…)
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April 12, 2016 at 6:07 pm
MJ: There was effort but it seems mostly that night. After that things didn’t really progress. I agree it seems people wanted it to go away. Yet here we still are. We’re not going away.
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April 12, 2016 at 6:28 pm
NOT MUCH effort at all FROM the first night. They did not search East or make any calls about the Saturn. They went to the next call and put it on the back burner to simmer…..waiting for the owner to just come back.
THAT DID NOT HAPPEN UNFORTUNATELY….!!
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April 12, 2016 at 6:48 pm
yeah Mac – disregard the spin. it was lame from the beginning….. and the LE phone logs & records appear to be altered & re-created ~look at them again… Thats my point. Lotsa smarties in this group. Think outside the box for something bigger than the obvious
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April 12, 2016 at 7:40 pm
Yes, I know all that. My point is, it’s something I’ve asked for months, was there any OTHER weirdness afoot around that time? Yes, the Brianna disappearance. Anything else?
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April 12, 2016 at 7:42 pm
I like ya Mac – but you’re just not listening………..
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April 12, 2016 at 8:44 pm
Stuff at West Point?
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April 12, 2016 at 11:11 pm
MJ: I’m listening all right, I just don’t agree completely.
Maura was an adult who refused help. Then she ran. The police did look though not in all places we would’ve preferred. They were on the scene for over an hour. We still can’t make connections as to what #001 was doing there and why there was a stink over jurisdiction. Records were changed; officials and witnesses on-scene never made it in the final report. You tell me. We need more clues to draw inferences.
Mr Murray has shared all he wishes. Some followers think he’s holding back. He says what he’s not sharing is irrelevant to what happened to Maura. Julie nearly told Renner what Mr Murray was up in Amherst for but since she never got further, we don’t know.
She disappeared where Butch and Forcier lived. Butch, while being one caller, did act a little odd. Why park that bus so far back? Did he harbor her until the cops left? Then she left on foot or until her ride came? No, I don’t think Butch killed her, but he may have been an enabler. Then again, there’s the other Atwood. There’s been a fairly high unusual death count in the tiny area over the past 20 years. Coincidence? Did Forcier actually see her running?
LE has more pages of phones records than we have. Were calls made on her phone after the accident? Was it her who used that phone? Lots of calls bouncing back’n’forth in the days before and immediately following her disappearance. Witnesses who weren’t initially as helpful as desired. Family members allegedly destroying Maura’s belongings once returned.
And on and on. What to make of it all? Sure, The State of New Hampshire may have a murder problem it doesn’t want to acknowledge; it’s got a tourism industry to protect. Even the mayor in “Jaws” got rebuffed by Chief Brody. To me, it’s not good business to allow monsters to roam free. It’s sexy to think that someone is being protected by higher authorities but that’s a stretch.
Canada or elsewhere? No evidence … yet.
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April 12, 2016 at 8:10 pm
MJ, I really am curious, and always have been, what you believe happened. You’ve never just come out and said it, only alluded that it’s a possibility “outside the box”, and that we’re all being misdirected by Fred, who in your opinion isn’t to be trusted.
If I actually knew what you were driving at (I am dense, no hiding it) I may be inclined to agree or disagree.
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April 12, 2016 at 8:57 pm
Ahhhhhh FKAAC okay – again here we goooo. Ive never claimed to be Jessica Fletcher… FM by his own actions, comments & evasiveness allows himself to be open to scrutiny. All Ive ever said – is I expect as a parent, asking for help from LE & the public & now FBI ~ that he tells everything he knowsssss about what was going on prior to Rte 112. he never has. why?
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April 12, 2016 at 9:08 pm
Part 2 FKAAC. – just trying to explain. I think MM cut bait. She got away.
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April 13, 2016 at 12:12 pm
Im really not trying to be snarky or difficult FKAAC. But if I laid out what I truly 100% believe BASED COMPLETELY on the info we all have access too (timelines, reports, blogs, podcasts, news stories, interviews etc) 1/2 would tar & feather me. Not everyone is an open minded as they claim to beeeeee….. I AM HOPING if y’all take another approach in this case, you will find the alternative CONCLUSION on your own(s) making it not such a hard pill to swallow. And in the long run, if Im remotely close, the answer is M is alive & well so I can live with that…
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April 13, 2016 at 1:25 pm
Mj, I’m not trying to be difficult either. I know you and I have butted heads before, but I’m not trying to be argumentative. You’re just making me dig.
You’re willing to throw out accusations that Fred’s a liar publicly, etc. , but not willing to just state what your theory is?
“But if I laid out what I truly 100% believe BASED COMPLETELY on the info we all have access too (timelines, reports, blogs, podcasts, news stories, interviews etc) 1/2 would tar & feather me.”
This puzzles me. Is your theory based on information NOT available to all of us (as some of mine is, which is why you won’t see me laying out precisely what I think happened in a public forum)? So you’re willing to do the tarring and feathering, to an extent, but not willing to put yourself out there and potentially be on the receiving end?
I’ve been trolled all over, far and wide, just for trying to clear up some misreported facts and providing some local insight. The tars and feathers haven’t been all that bad. Cold has put up entire posts trying to discredit me, and a flock of Youtube trolls have been drawn to me, but it still hasn’t deterred me, and I would hope it wouldn’t stop you from saying what’s on your mind either. I’m pretty sure you won’t be ridiculed here.
I try to take every approach in this case, and even though I have strong feelings on my own research, I don’t discount anyone else’s either, as long as it stands up to scrutiny.
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April 13, 2016 at 3:22 pm
“This puzzles me. Is your theory based on information NOT available to all of us (as some of mine is, which is why you won’t see me laying out precisely what I think happened in a public forum)? So you’re willing to do the tarring and feathering, to an extent, but not willing to put yourself out there and potentially be on the receiving end?”
FormerlyKnownAsAlexC Just out of curiosity when you say not all your info is public knowledge could i ask where you get it from? Is it from locals? Or some other means? And is there a reason you feel unable to share it publicly? Sorry just curious.
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April 13, 2016 at 4:21 pm
Sammy, I live locally, and there is no shortage of chit chat about this case in these small towns. Much of which has never been discussed online, things like people that were (maybe still are) POIs, places that were searched, etc. Some people will outright accuse certain other people of being involved. Sorting the fact from fiction is the tough part, but it’s not impossible.
It’s not my place, and I don’t feel comfortable posting about the stuff that has never been made public, for the same reason the police didn’t disclose don’t, possibly jeopardizing the case.
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April 13, 2016 at 5:35 pm
“Sammy, I live locally, and there is no shortage of chit chat about this case in these small towns. Much of which has never been discussed online, things like people that were (maybe still are) POIs, places that were searched, etc. Some people will outright accuse certain other people of being involved. Sorting the fact from fiction is the tough part, but it’s not impossible.
It’s not my place, and I don’t feel comfortable posting about the stuff that has never been made public, for the same reason the police didn’t disclose don’t, possibly jeopardizing the case.”
FormerlyKnownAsAlexC I used to live in a small town where everybody new everyone’s business and the gossip mongering was sometimes out of control so i can only imagine the kind of talk that goes on when something as unusual as this happens locally!
Am i right in assuming that you think she met with foul play and by someone local? If this is the case do you feel local LE know who, they just don’t have the evidence?
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April 13, 2016 at 7:03 pm
“Am i right in assuming that you think she met with foul play and by someone local?”
Whether or not it was foul play or an accident took place, I believe Maura to be dead, and that it was by someone local.
“If this is the case do you feel local LE know who, they just don’t have the evidence?”
I feel certain members of local LE may know who, as far as evidence, I don’t know if there any.
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April 13, 2016 at 11:29 pm
““Am i right in assuming that you think she met with foul play and by someone local?”
Whether or not it was foul play or an accident took place, I believe Maura to be dead, and that it was by someone local.
“If this is the case do you feel local LE know who, they just don’t have the evidence?”
I feel certain members of local LE may know who, as far as evidence, I don’t know if there any.”
FormerlyKnownAsAlexC This intrigues me. I am always interested to hear other peoples theories, especially from locals as i am sure there is a lot of inside knowledge there. Would you be willing to share your theory privately via email as you dont feel comfortable doing so publicly? It would go no further, i am just so curious!
If so drop me an email: its_sam95@hotmail.com
No pressure, i understand if you don’t feel comfortable doing so.
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April 13, 2016 at 8:02 am
Why in heavens is it a stretch Mac? WHY? A local nut theory with allllllllllllllll the baggage, mystery, & missing pieces before isnt? C’mon.
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April 13, 2016 at 8:10 am
and Mac – FM has shared all that he wishes? thats the dumbest defense of someone Ive ever heard. Of course he has that right – 12yrs of NUTHIN’ he might want to rethink his position…
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April 13, 2016 at 10:39 am
I agree that it’s a stretch, but it’s not the only stretch amongst the theories. Since I don’t recall you ever laying the whole thing out, do you think Maura was in the witness protection program or something?
Anything to do with some crackdowns at West Point? Why else would she be “protected”?
Like I said, I’ve never really been able to fully piece together what you think went down, so apologies if I’m way off.
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April 12, 2016 at 9:12 pm
“Sammyh85 “AFrame has not been looked into by NHSP” & “Where is the logic!!” This & all the other pull-your-hair-out-questions have the same common denominator. It smells like LE has been told/advised/ordered NOT to pursue – why else would the ball have been dropped sooooo many times in this case. Either that or it means local AND state all were completely inept ~which just doesn’t ring true. Its like they purposely looked away, put forth zero effort, & let it ride……. like they were given marching orders to just let the dust settle. Smart people in this group, forum, following, etc I wish y’all would try to chew on it from that angle. Like him or lump him Renner’s spot on in the last podcast – with allllllll the unexplained info & drama that is known about the months prior to Rte112 – being abducted by a random nut is awful hard to swallow. ….EVER try to quietly & easily get a 2yr old into a car seat that refuses to go? Now picture a athletic, young, WP trained cadet, into a car w/o anyone seeing or hearing anything. TWestman confirmed there were cars up & down that road during that period of time (if you believe TWestman…)”
Does anyone know whatever happened to the carpet samples and other evidence gathered from the A Frame House? Did it magically disappear like it would seem many other things have done with this case? Regarding the A Frame House where did the initial interest to search it stem from?
In regards to the ‘abduction’ theory being nearly impossible because Maura was a fit, athletic, young women; i don’t entirely buy that. My main reason being that it didn’t necessarily have to be an abduction against her will. She may well have accepted a ride from someone, she may even have flagged down a ride, we have to remember she was in a desperate situation at that point. She was facing a possible DUI, didn’t want anymore LE dealings after her previous troubles, is potentially stuck in the middle of know where, with no cell phone reception, on a cold dark night….people do irrational things and take risks when we are faced with situations we don’t know how to deal with or aren’t expecting. Once inside that car she is completely at their mercy, there needn’t have been a struggle to get her in a car at all. That is not to say i rule out other scenarios, just saying it is not above the realms of possibilities that she was an abduction victim.
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April 12, 2016 at 9:52 pm
“Regarding the A Frame House where did the initial interest to search it stem from?”
Fred Murray was approached by the brother of the resident of the A-Frame house. He presented Fred with a stained knife and told him he believed his brother was responsible for her murder.
It is unknown whatever happened with the knife and carpet samples, or if they were ever tested, etc. As far as I understand it anyway.
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April 12, 2016 at 10:39 pm
“Fred Murray was approached by the brother of the resident of the A-Frame house. He presented Fred with a stained knife and told him he believed his brother was responsible for her murder.
It is unknown whatever happened with the knife and carpet samples, or if they were ever tested, etc. As far as I understand it anyway.”
Thanks for clarifying, i thought that was the case, i just wasn’t 100% sure.
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April 13, 2016 at 8:07 am
y’all keep kicking the same cans. Im not trying to convince anyone & I certainly cant prove anything – only encouraging other sets of eyes. do the math & if you dont get the correct answer, keep going back & check your work.
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April 13, 2016 at 8:35 pm
Just a minute, Missy … (((places giant hairy paw on MJ’s shoulder))) … you ain’t goin’ ANYWHERE without paying your bill. Payment is due. You’re a gal, right? I saw downwind you played around with “outside the box” ideas such as witness protection. We’ve all tried to get inside her head because we may have done similar things ourselves in the distant past. So, my question: What is your current idea?
Yes … we are chasing our tails. The reason I came here was twofold: John had maps and an alternative ideas to JR’s (and others’) blogs. I too tired of the same ol’ “she ran away” idea and I still lean towards abduction, not necessarily because some creeps are native to Woodsville but because there has been absolutely no word from Maura to anyone for 12 years. I posted a link earlier this week here of missing persons cases in which they were discovered in new lives years after the fact. I’m not saying she couldn’t pull it off, it’s just under those circumstances it would’ve unlikely and more likely she perished naturally or at the hands of a drifter. I don’t know.
You do have one thing right: All those phone calls back’n’forth to Billy. What in the world for which would anyone call that much? You can accuse Mr Murray of withholding information but then I’d think as much of The Rausches.
Besides … even folks here believe she staged the accident. Not sure how, but if they think this, then they believe she’s not in NH either. Then again … there are others who believe others staged it.
So, spill. You ain’t gonna get hassling from me. I’m just as curious as anyone.
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April 12, 2016 at 5:57 pm
John Smith’s rebuttal video: https://youtu.be/pxEZvow_oyo
This was produced as there were tech difficulties with the intended four-way SpreeCast® some weeks ago, now available itself on YouTube®: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wc5__k6Qj8
I’m not familiar with the other names aside Gray’s and Conrad’s. Clark is new also.
There are at least two Pauline Clarks discovered in Search. This is the gal who turned up in my initial surfing: http://www.rickerfh.com/memsol.cgi?user_id=1551626 … then I changed my search parameters to “Pauline Clark Woodsville, NH” and got this hit: http://nhunsolved.blogspot.com/2005/12/nhvtme-unsolved-homicides.html but nothing more relevant.
“Witness A” and “gvmeabk”: These two persons seem marginalized by LE and persons unknown. This coming from the witnesses themselves.
About the above double-post – WordPress® is kinda sticky. The main reason this information moved me to post is because I have to reason that other weirdness may have been going on in the general area around the time of Maura’s disappearance. That’s not necessarily true but if we’re going to find “other things” apart from a body or DNA, it matters, such as prostitution at those resorts or whatever else may go on apart from winter activities.
Back to the scene, I see a few comments on what happened to the car on the FB page. It was moved away last year to a northern locale and we don’t know what forensics, if any, were conducted on it. If not, the exterior would yield nothing at this point. The interior has been so compromised I doubt it would yield anything either.
Unrelated, please, no “F Troop” jokes, thanks. Save them for Larry Storch.
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April 12, 2016 at 7:15 pm
Random thought-does there have to be certain amount of weight on passenger seat in order for air bag to go off?
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April 12, 2016 at 7:35 pm
Both airbags would deploy in a 1996 Saturn.
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April 12, 2016 at 7:37 pm
I know where you’re going with this, I’ve thought it too, but not necessarily.
Per my first comment at top, “When I got hit years ago (their fault) I checked the back of an SUV right rear panel and that was enough to cause both airbags in my Lil’ Bo Peep ’95 Prizm to engage.”
No passengers, but both tripped. Both Prizms and Saturns were built under the GM flag.
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April 12, 2016 at 8:03 pm
I wrote a paper in college in about 1997 about airbags killing people in low speed crashes. The story that stayed with me was a grandmother sitting in a parking lot waiting for her daughter, her grandson was sitting in the passenger seat, the car was parked, they were just waiting, her car got bumped in the front by a vehicle parking, the airbags went off killing the young boy in the front seat. The vehicle that hit them was parking, it was literally a bump, but because of where the airbag sensor was, they went off. Vehicles have changed a lot since then.
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April 12, 2016 at 10:52 pm
Great point, Theresa. We have to remember that airbags were killing people back then. How many? Well, I know it’s cynical criticism here in The States to “recall when just one thing goes wrong” but it was enough to warrant a redesign of a SAFETY feature. If people were being killed by airbags, it’s plausible to conclude that those not-so-safe airbags could crack a windshield.
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April 13, 2016 at 8:13 am
OMG yes! Again, I wrote this paper around 1997, at that time airbags came out with “twice the force of a punch from Mike Tyson” I don’t remember where this quote came from, but it also stuck with me. A Saturn is NOT a top of the line automobile, it is safe to say their safety equipment was not top of the line either.
Also a side note, I am PRETTY certain that windshield coverage is mandatory coverage in MA, as is insurance, so you RARELY see people driving around with any sort of crack in their windshields because the replacement is free, you get 1 per year, without and penalty. I am 99.9% sure of this. Also in MA, in 2004 I am pretty sure you could only get a few different brands of insurance, Geico, Progressive and others were not allowed in this state, that has since changed, but in 2004, I think that was still the case.
I can’t log in via Google+
So this is Moggie73,
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April 13, 2016 at 7:54 am
Thank you Mac and Theresa!
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April 13, 2016 at 8:39 pm
What? Where? What did I do? I SWEAR TO CHRIST IT WASN’T MY FAULT!!!
🙂
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April 13, 2016 at 4:05 pm
+FKAAC If 1/2 truths & omissions are lies (than yes) I believe he is lying. Do I believe he’s lying bcause he harmed her. No. You can do whatever the heck you want Alex. Alllllll I have ever said/asked IF people can stop banging their heads against the same wall & look at the evidence/info accessible to alllllll of us thats out there – there CAN be a different outcomes/conclusions. And since the local yocal, blue brotherhood, suicide, & wandered off in the woods theories havent produced a THING, why not give it a whirl??? You’re bustin me for not painting y’all a picture but you’re letting FM’s ( the DAD with the most at stake here) miscues off the hook. I dont get it.
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April 13, 2016 at 4:36 pm
So witness protection? Yes, no? Why’s she being “protected”, if not? These are the things I’m curious about.
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April 13, 2016 at 5:27 pm
Yeah, I did dance w/ that awhile. Keep in mind Ive only been in this (unfortunate) club for 2yrs – most of y’all were more well versed than I. Still that could very well be a possibility. Take nothing off the table that hasnt been chewed & spit out for 12yrs. And idk for what – but it would explain the IN-ept-ness of the innnnvestigation over the yrs. Stand down – dont blow this LE, right?
Still on the table cause its fresh & pausible Thats the kinda stuff I suggested you smarties do-your-thing-with like you’ve been doing with the other theories I mentioned previously that have hit the 12yr old brickwall.
I figured out from (my) Day1 based on her life – never under estimate MM. She’s smart & she will do what she has too to survive.
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April 13, 2016 at 8:41 pm
Two? You’re a newb … I really can’t recall when or where I got sucked into this … it was at least a couple years before Renner though. I almost wish I’d written it down ‘cuz I USED to know.
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April 14, 2016 at 8:01 am
yeah Mac I caught up quick ~ sometimes OCD is a blessing & a curse 😛
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April 14, 2016 at 8:52 am
I personally can’t get on board with the witness protection theory although I guess it’s possible.
I have (thankfully) no personal experience with witness protection but there is plenty out there written by those that have. Most say the same thing, it’s nothing like on the TV – no armed escorts, new lives, not even always a new ID. You are basically spirited away to a safe house and then given a one-way ticket out of town and some cash to tide you over.
The last thing anyone would want to do is stage a car accident to draw attention to Maura. If they wanted her to appear dead, she’d have to have been in witness protection for something so huge it would blow our minds.
Sorry, this is at the bottom of my list with living happily in Canada.
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April 14, 2016 at 2:47 pm
Just a possibility. WPP is one of many organized & orchestrated, programs….. hint Salute.
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