Very good listen John. I agree with a lot of what you have said in the video. Especially at the 22:00 on part addressing the JM situation. Quetions that no one seems to be able to answer.
Now I know that according to the court documents when Fred went to trial to get some of the records released of the investigation, it was mentioned to Fred’s attorney that an interview was to be done on video with JM with his version of events that night.
Do we know if a video was done and exists and if the FBI have privy to see it? Are you aware of what I speak of or do you need me to find it and post?
I am not sure IF it was ever done but IF it was Mr. Murray does not know of its existence and it must be part of the official investigation and most likely to never be released.
Good video John, you touched on some good points. I was a little disappointed you weren’t able to fully be involved the other night. Mac, I recommend watching the Spreecast if at all possible, as it has the chat recorded alongside it, where John and viewers’ comments can all be seen.
Some of the things I’m glad you covered in this video were the Westman’s changing statements. About the rag being mentioned by Smith, and the “cigarette”. I asked a specific question of Clint, but it went unanswered. According to Clint: “The person smoking in Maura’s car has been debunked. There was only one person attached to the Saturn at the accident location as noted by five witnesses. Faith Westman has denied actually saying she saw a man smoking in Maura’s car.”
Yet as stated to “Ledyard”: “I asked Mr. Westman about the red dot — what did he believe that it was? He stated that, originally, he and Mrs. Westman believed that it was a cigarette. Later, “a family member” of Maura’s “told” him that it was not a cigarette and that, instead, it was a cellphone charger.”
This was never specifically addressed on the Spreecast.
Her attempting to commit suicide while in plain sight of the Westman’s house (among other homes) and while in a road is a little hard to believe and I have always discounted that as a reason for the rag in the tailpipe.
As far as the rag being used as some sort of signal to someone, I don’t believe it. According to Lavoie, who spoke to Renner, more than once: “I spoke to Mike Lavoie again. He says the rag was stuffed way up in there.” I’m doubting it was all that visible.
On another note, I oddly had another Youtube comment on a podcast episode deleted, and Tim and Lance again confirmed it wasn’t removed by them. People accuse John of being a conspiracy theorist for making claims like this, but this is the second time I’ve had one “moderated”. The last time I mentioned T&FW, so I thought there might have been an issue there and someone reported it, but this time all my comment was about was Saturn airbags. I linked to the videos that show a Saturn airbag going off (that I believe explains any sound the Westman’s might have heard, if they did), and the one that shows a nearly identical “spider crack” in the windshield that I believe shows it was caused only by the airbag going off, and no head-to-windshield contact.
I’ve had two comments “moderated” as well. I’ve stopped commenting for this reason. The first time it happened was very shortly after the podcast came out, maybe around episode 5, I was told they didn’t delete it. The second time I just gave up. My first comment had to do with the Westmans, my second comment was something about JR’s theory of MM being a psychopath. I’ve wondered since then, exactly who I offended, but now I wonder if someone is just randomly picking comments to report, or if someone is selectively picking comments to report. Sounds funny, but I don’t know why else they’d be deleted.
Odd that one of your deleted comments mentioned the Westmans. On second thought, this most recent comment of mine also mentioned them by name, as did the first. John said that when he, Tim, and Lance had an impromptu interview with TW, he told them he listened to the podcast. I wonder if they go around “reporting” comments on the podcast videos on YouTube that they don’t like? It’s honestly the only logical explanation I can come to, and I believe Tim and Lance when they tell me they didn’t delete them.
I agree, I believe Tim and Lance. I do find it strange that MORE than a couple comments naming the Westmans were deleted. The Westmans don’t strike me as particularly tech savvy so I cant imagine they get online and peruse youtube or blog sites, etc. but then again, they listen to the podcast, so who knows!
OH…. Ok, well then.. I just proved you cant judge a book by a cover! So perhaps they report comments where they see their name. I cant lie, I guess I might do the same, depending upon the information in the comment.
Btw- I posted this under a comment Mac made about a post on the sitcoms online board, by a poster named SJP1313. That poster is me. My response might be of interest to you just for a read if nothing more-
“I meant to thank you for posting this Mac. Its sometimes strange for me to go back and look at my old posts. After posting this post and a couple others of similar content on the SITCOMS ONLINE forums, I received 2 private messages from that message board telling me I should shut up and mind my own business. There were some other choice words in there, but I reported the messages to the moderator and never heard another thing about them. I spoke with Janie Baroski (the only known survivor of the valley killer) about her attack after I posted on that board, and I hadn’t thought about it all in years until you posted this! I still frequent those message boards, although I don’t talk very often. There’s some really nasty people on there. Someone with the screen name “Toad” recently responded to one of my posts about MM. He was absolutely positive that Maura was heading to Burlington to meet a Dr. that she and her family had met on vacation years previous. He said she was going there to get an abortion without anyone knowing. He says the abortion couldn’t be performed because she was farther along than she initially thought. Toad continued to say that Maura gave birth in early August of 2004, and fled to start a new life for fear of disappointing her family, and not wanting to be involved with BR any longer. He said she would be easy to locate via her child, and that child would have the last name of an alias MM used on a fake ID she had made a year or so previous. Toad said that her friends knew about this ID, and knew the name she used and this is why they refuse to speak. He seemed quite adamant in his words, but when I challenged him, and started asking questions, he became rude and offensive. He posted a picture of a horse trying to have his way with a police officer… which I was thought was strange. The comment was immediately moderated, and then the entire thread was deleted. Now that I’m typing it all, it seems strange and I should of thought about it more on Monday, when it happened.”
I don’t know, but I might venture back onto the boards and poke the Toad a little. Maybe he’ll share some more wisdom with me. I wish the thread wasn’t deleted. He did mention something about staying in a condo in Burlington, but I don’t remember the full details of what he said. I guess it would be interesting to find out from Fred, if they really ever met a doctor on vacation up there. “Toad” said “THEY” met him on a family vacation years earlier. I assume that means Fred included.
…..well ‘YA know. That would explain the breakdown phone call & catatonic state when she is told she is too far along for the procedure. Boyfriend is not happy about it.
Explains the snowstorm visit by FM, FM brings $4000 for 6months of living expenses until the birth, the party that never was w/ SA & KM was actually a get-out-of dodge planning session, DeathInTheFamily excuse email to Prof’s, 52 calls from BR, once he talks to KM never calls again, a staged Rte112 accident, taken to a pregnant women’s safe haven until after the event & then return home.
But Maura decides not too. clean break. no custody battle. no more family drama.
That would explain SA’s comment ….I told Fred the real story once & never will repeat it.
KM’s comment: ….maybe she had a plan but something else happened.
and FM’s frustration.
Hi John, I listened to your podcast and have to say for the most part, I agreed with everything you said. I do however have a few questions for you, I’m not sure if you have the answers to them. Do you know if the Haverhill or NH state police looked into registered sex offenders in the surrounding areas (Haverhill, Bath, Franconia, Easton… etc)? It seems like that would be the FIRST place the police should have looked. Do you know if this was looked into?
What’s great about today’s technology is those records are all available online. I’ve been doing my own search and with my theory of what happened that night, I have a few people I suspect could be involved. One in particular made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, because he would not only fit what I believe the profile of the perpetrator would be (has prior NH RSA 632-A:2, I ) but would have been in close proximity to Maura that night. I don’t feel comfortable posting people’s names on a public forum, but if you want to discuss with me, you can certainly feel free to email me. My email address is ericc345@gmail.com. Put it this way, my suspicion on this person is so strong, if I were a betting man, I’d throw all my chips in on this one….
Thank You John for the Video…..Now here comes my opinion…..Can Maura still be alive and be held captive? YES ” Nathanial Kibby” is all I have to say…..
This case is so perplexed….Was it Maura at the Weathered Barn???? Well that is the BIG question isn’t it?? Because she could have been assulted in MA. and her assaulters could have decided to take her car…..FACT OF THE MATTER is……..until we know for SURE that it was Maura driving the Saturn we will never solve this case…..SADLY!
I just heard the young woman that went missing in Pike a few days ago was found dead. The police comments, “untimely death” and “not suspecious”. Mr. Smith, I believe you have the local law enforcement spiel down pat. I was born and lived my early childhood in the area. I can’t believe the citizens of Haverhill put up with such unprofessional law enforcement.
One more thing……I DO NOT believe that LE had anything to do with Maura’s murder…….What I DO believe is that they seriously messed up the investigation and THAT is what they are ashamed of and trying to COVER!
I think the delivery receipt fields look like a guy’s penmanship…
Does that honestly look like the head of the class’ handwriting, even if it’s numbers?
Also…Is it just me or does the hand look different in almost every instance?
The poor tipping leads me to also believe it was a guy signing the slips.
Or perhaps even filling in that field as a matter of course?
To make the transaction(s) look more legit?
Who knows what was making up the difference for the drivers’ time and effort?
After all, for a delivery driver at that time, gasoline had already gotten out of hand following Iraq (Spring/ Summer 2003)…Those drivers were losing money on life taking those bags for a buck a pop.
“Spreecast if at all possible, as it has the chat recorded alongside it …”
Alex: Brower’s too old.
Boots: Are these sigs related to The SpreeCast? What’s this; never read this before.
Sara: I’d keep this development close to your sleeve; betcha that poster knows of this site.
John: An old poster at Websleuths, Bill, has said that a man went missing up there around the time of MM and BM, not Tom Conrad, yet there’s been little to no coverage on that case. What’s up with that?
Mac, again, I think you’ll get more from the Spreecast. There wer some good comments and unanswered questions. Besides, doesn’t such an outdated browser put you more at risk for viruses, etc. Upgrade! 🙂
“A young man disappeared without a trace in Woodsville (3 miles from MM accident scene) right around the time MM disappeared. John smith talks about Brianna Maitland and Maura, has never mentioned this young man at all that I know of. It’s anecdotal, but relevant. John Smith is a bit of an old cook, and is a conspiracy theorist. He should not be held as the gold standard of unbiased investigating.”
Not sure Towle would be considered a “young man”, so I’m not sure exactly who Bill is referring to.
Also looking up NHCCU’s list of cases (http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/cold-case/victim-list/index.htm) and other sources, and that’s the only missing person from that area (and that time period – he vanished in 2002) that I can find info on readily.
I’d lump 2 years into “around the time” so I don’t think the time is far off. It’s the age of Towle, who was 60 at the time, that makes me question who Bill refers to. No one else on that list, or no one that I’ve heard of around these parts, fits the criteria he speaks of, to my knowledge.
Alex: Can’t. Don’t have an Intel Mac. Sucks to be me.
Thanks on the info re: Dennis Towle. I’ll read that, too. Doesn’t seem to be whomever Bill refers to. Possibly confused? I’ve not read, but I’m going to assume that Towle suffered from dementia.
I wouldn’t say 2010 was “around the same time” Maura disappeared. Nor would I necessarily call 40 young (though I wouldn’t call it old either). Bill also specifically states Woodsville, and this person went missing from Haverhill, though that might just be splitting hairs.
The linked article in the comments no longer exists, but it does confirm some of the other comments about Flynn on Rener’s post. Though the very next comment on that Topix thread is from the person I believe to be the same “Bill” on Websleuths (if I had to guess, though it’s only that), and he seems to know that Flynn was found alive and well, judging by his comments there.
The sigs aren’t necessarily related to the Spreecast, but inspired by John’s rebuttal video when he brings up details from Mass. along with the oft-asked question of “who was actually driving the Saturn?” (~39:00)
In the police report for the credit card situation in Mass. back in ~Nov 2003:
(Thank you, James.)
The signatures are redacted, but the tips & totals are still visible.
Maybe it makes perfect sense and that anyone who was committing this type of fraud would avoid using their own incriminating hand, but I think it still merits mentioning if we’re indeed going all the way back to Mass. with this.
Trying to listen to it now, it’s not easy, I can’t agree with a lot of what Clint and JR are saying. I’m more inclined to put more credence in the input from locals, who are much more knowledgeable about what goes on in that area, and are enmeshed in the culture there.
Cheapskates as I, rejoice! The Spreecast is a Freecast now. It’s not available as a podcast just yet.
Mom: You got it! That’s the primary reason I yap here. It’s all about Location.
Speaking of which, I’m reading “Not Without Peril” now. Good read. Just finished the chapter in which the Tuckerman snow arch falls on Sewell Faunce. Never knew there was such a phenon there. Pretty! Pretty dangerous, too.
Now I have to re-listen to John’s rebuttal video; my head is spinning. I just can’t buy some of what was said, but I do think some new info I heard is interesting.
I’m also reading Not Without Peril, got it for Christmas, and have been sporadically reading it, just starting chapter 13. It’s a great historical account of Mt Washington and the Presidential range becoming a tourist attraction, blazing the trails, stories about the people involved, and the accidents and deaths that occurred there and why. I can’t see a suicide connection at all though. The topographical maps in it are so useful, though I have to use a magnifying glass to really examine them. We clearly picked the wrong trail to go up the first time we went– the one off of Jefferson Notch Rd; far too steep for a first timer. We drove up the auto road and hiked down to Lakes of the Clouds Hut and back. Next time we will try Crawford Path.
I’m glad some people are starting to read Not Without Peril. As a hiker local to the area it’s almost required reading. There is zero romanticizing death, and it is mainly accounts of people being caught in bad weather. I always personally felt this was put out there a bit more than it should have been in the suicide angle.
What struck me most back in The ’80s when my family and I went there was the number of kids with T-shirts and some muling cases of beer on their backs! For many of us there’s little conception that for every 100′ of vertical climb that equates to walking 10mi north. By the time one reaches the summit of Washington, or probably any summit on the range, one has effectively traversed into the climes of Canadian tundra.
So The Murrays knew full well the dangers of the area, making the entire scenario around the spontaneous trip up there all the more bizarre. Maybe the romance of the area got the better of her?
Mac, thanks for the link, very helpful! We do plan on going up there again this summer or early fall. The book really points out how unprepared out of town people who didn’t listen to good advice by locals ended up in tragic circumstances.
I’ve been up there (lived in Jersey all my life except college in WV and PA) many times, and I’ve never felt in any kind of danger. I never put myself in any dangerous situations either; never wandered around alone at night (or during the day for that matter) in an unfamiliar, sparsely populated place.
I don’t know how unfamiliar MM was with the area. I remember Clint had said in either his 1st or 2nd podcast that just the Oct prior she and her dad had vacationed in VT and drove to NH to hike West Bond and Bondcliff, which are right off of 112 on the other side of I-93, so they most likely drove right past the site where the car was found in Feb (according to Clint). Fred also said she was up there 4-5 times a year since she was a quite young, so I think there’s a good chance she’d been along that stretch of road where the car was found in Feb at least once before. I don’t know what to believe as far as the condition of her car; there have been different things said about it. I’m not convinced one way or the other yet whether it was her that night at the scene. I can only say the car made it somehow from Amherst to Haverhill….
Mom: Top maps aren’t easy to find via your public library, most are reference materials. Sought out such in ours last night and the librarian said they tossed most of those ‘cuz … yeah, you got it. The iNet. So, Good Thing The Fed has ’em up for us. Oh, and can’t recommend The Globe Pequot, Countryman and Falcon Presses for publishing these great guides ‘cuz no one else will. Has to be a fairly unprofitable niche, I dunno.
AMC’s Hut System is AWESOME. We got to the Hut of the Clouds and were treated to TURKEY. I saw some kids go up with water packs; looked as if they weighed close to 100lbs. Sure would love to go back. That’s one of the few positives about reading on all this, how great the northeast is for natural adventure.
Oh, one more thing. I’m only on Chp6, “John Keenan”. John Keenan was a newb to the area in 1912 and had taken a grunt job doing survey work. Keenan got lost near the summit of Washington his first day, seen once more two days later at the base, then disappeared for good.
Once I put the book down, it made me think: Of all the stories thus far, this one comes closest to the MM disappearance. Sightings, even a hitched ride, but as the driver described later, “this person (Keenan) was almost a ghost”. Drooling and droning, Keenan thought he was in his hometown and though his destination was the Glen House, he instead opted for another locale frequented by loggers. Seems to me he was half-mad with hypothermia and famished; probably had been without water for two whole days and wasn’t dressed at all for the situation. There was evidence he had fallen and it’s possible he suffered a concussion. All he asked of the driver was gum and a lift. He was dropped off at the logging camp and never seen again. A missed connection: Had the driver known the young man was missing, he would’ve taken him to the proper authorities. So close, so far. He never made it to the Glen House and later reports had him in a hospital in Quebec, a false lead enabled by a simple typo. In the end, he definitely was seen but lost a second time and permanently. The frustration and sense of loss must have been unbearable.
Kinda sounds an awful lot like this case: Missed connections, verified and unverified sightings, dumb mistakes, no resolution. A permanent state of mystery.
Can the gals of the board eliminate the abortion angle with circumstantial evidence please?
Personally, I’m not quite buying this story. Thin stuff. I don’t think she was that far along if in fact she was “with child”. VT is a liberal state. What is the cost of an abortion? Finally, Maura would NOT get a professional call indicating pregnancy information at midnight, even a voicemail, particularly when we can buy over-the-counter tests. I just can’t see her testing herself or receiving such a call on the job, resulting in that breakdown.
The pros: Computer searches. All them pizzas. ATM cash.
The cons: The liquor (Yes I realize the wave breaks both ways). Aren’t there clinics in Mass? Why Stowe? ATM cash recovered (counter to the latest JR post). The online behavior of those claiming a detailed account of this Stowe visit and the fact she never got to Stowe but instead crash-landed in Haverhill, NH.
Can’t eliminate it for you (sorry!), but I can give some female perspective to some of your thoughts…
Would she test herself at work? Yes, probably. That’s the type of thing that takes over your mind, and makes it almost impossible for you to function until you have an answer. Not to mention, she probably had a lot more privacy at work at that hour than she would have had in her shared, community dorm bathroom (at least I assume it was shared). She also could have tested herself before work, and just couldn’t hold it together any longer.
As far as getting a professional call at that time… maybe it was “off the record” -professional. I have heard chatter about MM & FM meeting a doctor on a family trip up north (it’s somewhere on this blog in the comments, I just saw it tonight)… maybe that doctor called from his cell phone after hours to deliver some news and/or answer her questions as a friend? Better yet – maybe “MY SISTER!” had gotten in touch with him and then he called Maura…? Idk, just speculating.
The pizzas: it’s college. Land of unhealthy, cheap choices. We’ve all been there.
ATM cash – interesting to think that maybe it was not Fred bouncing all over town taking out the $4000… was it MM? Not sure where to go with this one…
The computer searches — yeah I don’t know. I think if anything, maybe she was trying to find out what damage she may have already done to the baby, IF in fact she was pregnant. I don’t for a second believe that she was trying to cause a miscarriage OR that she had was researching for school. Pretty sure “alcohol effects on a fetus” is covered in 8th, 9th and 11th grade health class.
Not sure where the pregnant theory came from. Didnt she take her bc pills with her in her suitcase or clothes bag? Plus she was drinking pretty heavy for someone who may have found out they were pregnant. I say no, she wasn’t pregnant.
From what I can tell, it just came from the computer searches she had allegedly done. I don’t really believe it either honestly, but can’t say for sure…
I’ve been away for a while, just trying to catch up with everything here. I had emailed John a while back about this topic. I went thru a BSN program similar to Maura’s in PA in the late 70’s, so, granted, some of my experience may not be applicable, but I believe some may be relevant. The things that stick out to me, and I’m really not sure how it all may fit together or if it even does, are the following in chronological order: 1) Maura speaks with Bill after she speaks with Kathleen at work, then has the breakdown that causes the supervisor to think she shouldn’t finish her shift; 2) then she wrecks her dad’s new car, and when she calls Bill with her dad’s phone very early in the morning since she left her phone at the “party,” he says he thought something other than the accident was bothering her; 3) then she researches effects of alcohol on a fetus right before she drove out of state at the very beginning of a semester when it’s a time of intro to the course, review of normal anatomy and physiology relative to that course, maybe cover some more frequent non serious conditions, etc and not usually when you are getting into abnormalities, especially what she was researching; and 4) the computer searches and directions to Burlington and the call to Stowe, not anywhere near Haverhill where her car was found. So, I’m guessing that there’s at least a small possibility that she found out she was pregnant and could have been planning to seek an abortion in Burlington and then stay around Stowe to heal for a few days before returning. My questions regarding this are: did Fred know and is this what Sara knew that she told Fred about and then said she’d never speak of again? To some this may seem that it wouldn’t need to be kept secret for 12 years now, or maybe for their family it is. I could be going off in a completely wrong tangent here. But whether it was or wasn’t the reason for her trip, it seems something went horribly awry somewhere, somehow, along the way.
After just watching John’s rebuttal to the spreecast (which I haven’t seen/heard yet– trying to find it) I agree with just about everything he said. I think there’s any number of places, opportunities, and reasons she could have been abducted, the authorities are seemingly involved in some kind of cover up for some reason, and there may be some other issue or event that we have no or too little info about yet. I so wish we or someone could put all these pieces together so Fred and the family could have a truthful answer. Being a parent of 3, my heart especially goes out to him.
What’s up with that? I looked into that yesterday and balked. The other one from the fall was already on YouTube® so I never looked into that SpreeCast®. It’s not that I can’t afford it, I just don’t wanna bother.
So I did it backwards; I’ve seen the rebuttal and it’s not really necessary to see the SpreeCast®, although it would prove helpful.
Did they charge for the first live SpreeCast®? Doncha just lerv my annoying habit to trademark® everything®?
So, if “Jeremy Rathblun” IS telling the truth, that means it points to The Red Truck, a wood hauler, and the reason LE wanted items back from the family in June.
Wait, Boots … this guy’s cred went down a notch today …
Jeremy Rathbun: I have reported this stuff to Brian Flagg and 2 other Fish & Game officers when they were at the Warren Village Store….Do you think your cousin followed up…if he did then you would have seen dogs in the area but there were no dogs……I was the Individual who found these items and have information for SOMEONE WHO WILL TAKE THIS SERIOUSELY Because Fish & Game and police have proved otherwise!
Jeremy Rathbun: I honestly believe I can identify the gentleman in the red truck but there are those who that do not want to accept where the facts lead…its shocking but unfortunate…it fits with what is and is not being said
Jeremy Rathbun: Send your cousin and ill bring him to the area…simple as that! They do not listen…period! WITH A DOG! No BS….I have had to wait for my daughter to train her dog for recovery because no one would bring the dog except FRED and we all know how the authorities treat him….
Jeremy Rathbun: So, I ask, where is your cousin????????????? LETS GO!
Jeremy Rathbun: And just so EVERYONE knows YES, I am afraid of the New Hampshire Police as they are corrupt and dirty as they want to be…..if they want you to be quiet…they will make you!
I was looking at Google Earth and it’s ~14 miles as the crow flies from the crash site to Warren. It made me wonder how she may have gotten there.
Then I noticed the power line corridor running north-south about 2 miles west of the WBC.
Is there a snowmobile trail near the WBC that hooks up to the power line corridor?
The log mentioned a snowmobiler pulled over, didn’t it?
There was still a Saturn and a girl at the WBC and items that may or may not have belonged to MM were still found in Warren, regardless of the theory presented.
Understood, ‘cuz again, we’re not entitled. Pretty much our focus is to “watch the skies”, if you catch the drift, and be the boots on the ground, if we’re so inclined and are up that way and accessible. Otherwise, there’s really not much else we can do.
Boots: I’m not resigned to any one theory either nor will twist to suit. But can bend if things can fall into place sensibly.
“a navy blue sweatshirt with two initials on the tag of M.M. The initials were in black per. marker. Also in same area champion socks(female) white and blue. The navy sweatshirt had a logo on the lower portion and was solid white…..Red Ford pick-up year approx. 94,95, 96 f-150.”
Fred was told about these items, claimed Maura did that to her sweatshirts, and searched the area with this person and others later. The clothing wasn’t found during these later searches. This is all according to him, and there’s much I’m unclear on as well.
Boots, it could be that you read something dug up here earlier on a very short, not long-lived commentary page. Now, I think it’s under the “Two of Us” post, but there last night I read a comment that referenced Warren, NH and how someone claimed to see something.
From Uaddit.com:
“potential witness
“I personally have been searching the hills of NH since the so called accident. Through these eyes and other senses this author has witnessed some very leading information. Such as a red truck once owned by a family member disappearing after it is witnessed in warren NH. The DMV to this day has no record of where the vehicle went. The family member that should be investigated has family in NH….thats a promise!
“Guest | 12-28-2010 at 10:08 AM”
Could “Guest” be one of the three witnesses Jeremy Rathbun of whom he alluded? Or is it Rathbun himself?
Then that would be the same person, Sara. Good eye, and seems to fit what was told to me by the ex-officer. Just for my own clarification, do you have a link to the report you found this in?
After talking with the ex-officer in question (who is supposedly a cousin of one of the other posters on that Facebook thread according to Rathbun, Mac, to answer that question for you), I began to take this account with even more of a grain of salt. I do make note of it all though, per usual.
I am just asking that we Not post peoples personal info on the blog. Please discuss behind the scenes and then base your comments here on those discussions.
Thank You
John
I just do not want to this to become REDDIT….Puke..!
March 10, 2016 at 1:22 pm
Very good listen John. I agree with a lot of what you have said in the video. Especially at the 22:00 on part addressing the JM situation. Quetions that no one seems to be able to answer.
Now I know that according to the court documents when Fred went to trial to get some of the records released of the investigation, it was mentioned to Fred’s attorney that an interview was to be done on video with JM with his version of events that night.
Do we know if a video was done and exists and if the FBI have privy to see it? Are you aware of what I speak of or do you need me to find it and post?
LikeLiked by 2 people
March 10, 2016 at 1:28 pm
I am not sure IF it was ever done but IF it was Mr. Murray does not know of its existence and it must be part of the official investigation and most likely to never be released.
LikeLiked by 1 person
March 10, 2016 at 3:56 pm
I’m waiting for Lance+Tim to upload their podcast before I can see this. Can’t use that ScreeLive site, whatever it’s called.
LikeLike
March 10, 2016 at 4:49 pm
Good video John, you touched on some good points. I was a little disappointed you weren’t able to fully be involved the other night. Mac, I recommend watching the Spreecast if at all possible, as it has the chat recorded alongside it, where John and viewers’ comments can all be seen.
Some of the things I’m glad you covered in this video were the Westman’s changing statements. About the rag being mentioned by Smith, and the “cigarette”. I asked a specific question of Clint, but it went unanswered. According to Clint: “The person smoking in Maura’s car has been debunked. There was only one person attached to the Saturn at the accident location as noted by five witnesses. Faith Westman has denied actually saying she saw a man smoking in Maura’s car.”
Yet as stated to “Ledyard”: “I asked Mr. Westman about the red dot — what did he believe that it was? He stated that, originally, he and Mrs. Westman believed that it was a cigarette. Later, “a family member” of Maura’s “told” him that it was not a cigarette and that, instead, it was a cellphone charger.”
This was never specifically addressed on the Spreecast.
Her attempting to commit suicide while in plain sight of the Westman’s house (among other homes) and while in a road is a little hard to believe and I have always discounted that as a reason for the rag in the tailpipe.
As far as the rag being used as some sort of signal to someone, I don’t believe it. According to Lavoie, who spoke to Renner, more than once: “I spoke to Mike Lavoie again. He says the rag was stuffed way up in there.” I’m doubting it was all that visible.
On another note, I oddly had another Youtube comment on a podcast episode deleted, and Tim and Lance again confirmed it wasn’t removed by them. People accuse John of being a conspiracy theorist for making claims like this, but this is the second time I’ve had one “moderated”. The last time I mentioned T&FW, so I thought there might have been an issue there and someone reported it, but this time all my comment was about was Saturn airbags. I linked to the videos that show a Saturn airbag going off (that I believe explains any sound the Westman’s might have heard, if they did), and the one that shows a nearly identical “spider crack” in the windshield that I believe shows it was caused only by the airbag going off, and no head-to-windshield contact.
Not sure who that comment would have offended.
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March 11, 2016 at 4:29 pm
I’ve had two comments “moderated” as well. I’ve stopped commenting for this reason. The first time it happened was very shortly after the podcast came out, maybe around episode 5, I was told they didn’t delete it. The second time I just gave up. My first comment had to do with the Westmans, my second comment was something about JR’s theory of MM being a psychopath. I’ve wondered since then, exactly who I offended, but now I wonder if someone is just randomly picking comments to report, or if someone is selectively picking comments to report. Sounds funny, but I don’t know why else they’d be deleted.
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March 11, 2016 at 4:44 pm
Odd that one of your deleted comments mentioned the Westmans. On second thought, this most recent comment of mine also mentioned them by name, as did the first. John said that when he, Tim, and Lance had an impromptu interview with TW, he told them he listened to the podcast. I wonder if they go around “reporting” comments on the podcast videos on YouTube that they don’t like? It’s honestly the only logical explanation I can come to, and I believe Tim and Lance when they tell me they didn’t delete them.
This tin foil hat fits too well.
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March 11, 2016 at 7:08 pm
I agree, I believe Tim and Lance. I do find it strange that MORE than a couple comments naming the Westmans were deleted. The Westmans don’t strike me as particularly tech savvy so I cant imagine they get online and peruse youtube or blog sites, etc. but then again, they listen to the podcast, so who knows!
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March 11, 2016 at 7:21 pm
Tim is a Technical Engineer and faith does all the online stuff for the business.
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March 11, 2016 at 7:25 pm
OH…. Ok, well then.. I just proved you cant judge a book by a cover! So perhaps they report comments where they see their name. I cant lie, I guess I might do the same, depending upon the information in the comment.
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March 11, 2016 at 7:15 pm
Btw- I posted this under a comment Mac made about a post on the sitcoms online board, by a poster named SJP1313. That poster is me. My response might be of interest to you just for a read if nothing more-
“I meant to thank you for posting this Mac. Its sometimes strange for me to go back and look at my old posts. After posting this post and a couple others of similar content on the SITCOMS ONLINE forums, I received 2 private messages from that message board telling me I should shut up and mind my own business. There were some other choice words in there, but I reported the messages to the moderator and never heard another thing about them. I spoke with Janie Baroski (the only known survivor of the valley killer) about her attack after I posted on that board, and I hadn’t thought about it all in years until you posted this! I still frequent those message boards, although I don’t talk very often. There’s some really nasty people on there. Someone with the screen name “Toad” recently responded to one of my posts about MM. He was absolutely positive that Maura was heading to Burlington to meet a Dr. that she and her family had met on vacation years previous. He said she was going there to get an abortion without anyone knowing. He says the abortion couldn’t be performed because she was farther along than she initially thought. Toad continued to say that Maura gave birth in early August of 2004, and fled to start a new life for fear of disappointing her family, and not wanting to be involved with BR any longer. He said she would be easy to locate via her child, and that child would have the last name of an alias MM used on a fake ID she had made a year or so previous. Toad said that her friends knew about this ID, and knew the name she used and this is why they refuse to speak. He seemed quite adamant in his words, but when I challenged him, and started asking questions, he became rude and offensive. He posted a picture of a horse trying to have his way with a police officer… which I was thought was strange. The comment was immediately moderated, and then the entire thread was deleted. Now that I’m typing it all, it seems strange and I should of thought about it more on Monday, when it happened.”
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March 11, 2016 at 7:25 pm
Weird. Wonder what “Toad” thinks happened to Maura between February 9th and August of 2004?
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March 11, 2016 at 7:29 pm
I don’t know, but I might venture back onto the boards and poke the Toad a little. Maybe he’ll share some more wisdom with me. I wish the thread wasn’t deleted. He did mention something about staying in a condo in Burlington, but I don’t remember the full details of what he said. I guess it would be interesting to find out from Fred, if they really ever met a doctor on vacation up there. “Toad” said “THEY” met him on a family vacation years earlier. I assume that means Fred included.
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March 14, 2016 at 1:52 pm
…..well ‘YA know. That would explain the breakdown phone call & catatonic state when she is told she is too far along for the procedure. Boyfriend is not happy about it.
Explains the snowstorm visit by FM, FM brings $4000 for 6months of living expenses until the birth, the party that never was w/ SA & KM was actually a get-out-of dodge planning session, DeathInTheFamily excuse email to Prof’s, 52 calls from BR, once he talks to KM never calls again, a staged Rte112 accident, taken to a pregnant women’s safe haven until after the event & then return home.
But Maura decides not too. clean break. no custody battle. no more family drama.
That would explain SA’s comment ….I told Fred the real story once & never will repeat it.
KM’s comment: ….maybe she had a plan but something else happened.
and FM’s frustration.
Not saying I buy it but I can see it…
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March 11, 2016 at 10:37 am
Hi John, I listened to your podcast and have to say for the most part, I agreed with everything you said. I do however have a few questions for you, I’m not sure if you have the answers to them. Do you know if the Haverhill or NH state police looked into registered sex offenders in the surrounding areas (Haverhill, Bath, Franconia, Easton… etc)? It seems like that would be the FIRST place the police should have looked. Do you know if this was looked into?
What’s great about today’s technology is those records are all available online. I’ve been doing my own search and with my theory of what happened that night, I have a few people I suspect could be involved. One in particular made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, because he would not only fit what I believe the profile of the perpetrator would be (has prior NH RSA 632-A:2, I ) but would have been in close proximity to Maura that night. I don’t feel comfortable posting people’s names on a public forum, but if you want to discuss with me, you can certainly feel free to email me. My email address is ericc345@gmail.com. Put it this way, my suspicion on this person is so strong, if I were a betting man, I’d throw all my chips in on this one….
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March 11, 2016 at 10:43 am
Thank You John for the Video…..Now here comes my opinion…..Can Maura still be alive and be held captive? YES ” Nathanial Kibby” is all I have to say…..
This case is so perplexed….Was it Maura at the Weathered Barn???? Well that is the BIG question isn’t it?? Because she could have been assulted in MA. and her assaulters could have decided to take her car…..FACT OF THE MATTER is……..until we know for SURE that it was Maura driving the Saturn we will never solve this case…..SADLY!
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March 11, 2016 at 10:49 am
Now people are getting what I have been trying to sat. Awesome
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March 11, 2016 at 11:38 am
I just heard the young woman that went missing in Pike a few days ago was found dead. The police comments, “untimely death” and “not suspecious”. Mr. Smith, I believe you have the local law enforcement spiel down pat. I was born and lived my early childhood in the area. I can’t believe the citizens of Haverhill put up with such unprofessional law enforcement.
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March 11, 2016 at 12:31 pm
One more thing……I DO NOT believe that LE had anything to do with Maura’s murder…….What I DO believe is that they seriously messed up the investigation and THAT is what they are ashamed of and trying to COVER!
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March 11, 2016 at 12:47 pm
I do agree……
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March 11, 2016 at 9:27 pm
pure speculation
As far as Mass. goes…
I think the delivery receipt fields look like a guy’s penmanship…
Does that honestly look like the head of the class’ handwriting, even if it’s numbers?
Also…Is it just me or does the hand look different in almost every instance?
The poor tipping leads me to also believe it was a guy signing the slips.
Or perhaps even filling in that field as a matter of course?
To make the transaction(s) look more legit?
Who knows what was making up the difference for the drivers’ time and effort?
After all, for a delivery driver at that time, gasoline had already gotten out of hand following Iraq (Spring/ Summer 2003)…Those drivers were losing money on life taking those bags for a buck a pop.
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March 12, 2016 at 12:33 pm
“Spreecast if at all possible, as it has the chat recorded alongside it …”
Alex: Brower’s too old.
Boots: Are these sigs related to The SpreeCast? What’s this; never read this before.
Sara: I’d keep this development close to your sleeve; betcha that poster knows of this site.
John: An old poster at Websleuths, Bill, has said that a man went missing up there around the time of MM and BM, not Tom Conrad, yet there’s been little to no coverage on that case. What’s up with that?
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March 12, 2016 at 12:48 pm
I am not sure who he speaks of. Nobody that i know of disappeared around the same time as Maura.
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March 12, 2016 at 12:52 pm
Mac, again, I think you’ll get more from the Spreecast. There wer some good comments and unanswered questions. Besides, doesn’t such an outdated browser put you more at risk for viruses, etc. Upgrade! 🙂
Bill probably refers to Dennis Towle if I had to guess:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/towle_dennis.html
Yet another victim of the “Woodsville/Haverhill Triangle”.
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March 12, 2016 at 12:56 pm
Just reread Bill’s comment:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?295143-NH-Maura-Murray-21-Haverhill-9-Feb-2004-13&p=12406727#post12406727
“A young man disappeared without a trace in Woodsville (3 miles from MM accident scene) right around the time MM disappeared. John smith talks about Brianna Maitland and Maura, has never mentioned this young man at all that I know of. It’s anecdotal, but relevant. John Smith is a bit of an old cook, and is a conspiracy theorist. He should not be held as the gold standard of unbiased investigating.”
Not sure Towle would be considered a “young man”, so I’m not sure exactly who Bill is referring to.
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March 12, 2016 at 1:09 pm
Also looking up NHCCU’s list of cases (http://doj.nh.gov/criminal/cold-case/victim-list/index.htm) and other sources, and that’s the only missing person from that area (and that time period – he vanished in 2002) that I can find info on readily.
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March 12, 2016 at 1:12 pm
Correct
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March 12, 2016 at 1:11 pm
But Dennis was 2 yrs b4 Maura.
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March 12, 2016 at 1:18 pm
I’d lump 2 years into “around the time” so I don’t think the time is far off. It’s the age of Towle, who was 60 at the time, that makes me question who Bill refers to. No one else on that list, or no one that I’ve heard of around these parts, fits the criteria he speaks of, to my knowledge.
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March 12, 2016 at 1:21 pm
Right alex
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March 12, 2016 at 2:32 pm
“Upgrade!”
Alex: Can’t. Don’t have an Intel Mac. Sucks to be me.
Thanks on the info re: Dennis Towle. I’ll read that, too. Doesn’t seem to be whomever Bill refers to. Possibly confused? I’ve not read, but I’m going to assume that Towle suffered from dementia.
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March 12, 2016 at 4:22 pm
Was it Flynn?
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/01/was-maura-victim-of-connecticut-valley.html
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March 12, 2016 at 4:46 pm
I wouldn’t say 2010 was “around the same time” Maura disappeared. Nor would I necessarily call 40 young (though I wouldn’t call it old either). Bill also specifically states Woodsville, and this person went missing from Haverhill, though that might just be splitting hairs.
Also, this Christopher Flynn was found alive and to have not been missing at all:
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/T6PVDJ63QU88M6MPP/post120
The linked article in the comments no longer exists, but it does confirm some of the other comments about Flynn on Rener’s post. Though the very next comment on that Topix thread is from the person I believe to be the same “Bill” on Websleuths (if I had to guess, though it’s only that), and he seems to know that Flynn was found alive and well, judging by his comments there.
Still unsure to whom he refers.
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March 12, 2016 at 4:48 pm
That is possible. he was from mass. and his vehicle was found in haverhill on a side road in the woods.
Since located safe.
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March 12, 2016 at 4:12 pm
Hey Mac,
So sorry for my delay, sir.
The sigs aren’t necessarily related to the Spreecast, but inspired by John’s rebuttal video when he brings up details from Mass. along with the oft-asked question of “who was actually driving the Saturn?” (~39:00)
In the police report for the credit card situation in Mass. back in ~Nov 2003:
(Thank you, James.)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_atAFvowRhcy1kTnEzbXRCUDg/view?pref=2&pli=1
The signatures are redacted, but the tips & totals are still visible.
Maybe it makes perfect sense and that anyone who was committing this type of fraud would avoid using their own incriminating hand, but I think it still merits mentioning if we’re indeed going all the way back to Mass. with this.
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March 31, 2016 at 1:50 pm
FYI The spreecast from a few weeks ago has been released today as podcast episode 26.
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March 31, 2016 at 3:53 pm
Trying to listen to it now, it’s not easy, I can’t agree with a lot of what Clint and JR are saying. I’m more inclined to put more credence in the input from locals, who are much more knowledgeable about what goes on in that area, and are enmeshed in the culture there.
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March 31, 2016 at 5:44 pm
Cheapskates as I, rejoice! The Spreecast is a Freecast now. It’s not available as a podcast just yet.
Mom: You got it! That’s the primary reason I yap here. It’s all about Location.
Speaking of which, I’m reading “Not Without Peril” now. Good read. Just finished the chapter in which the Tuckerman snow arch falls on Sewell Faunce. Never knew there was such a phenon there. Pretty! Pretty dangerous, too.
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March 31, 2016 at 6:38 pm
Now I have to re-listen to John’s rebuttal video; my head is spinning. I just can’t buy some of what was said, but I do think some new info I heard is interesting.
I’m also reading Not Without Peril, got it for Christmas, and have been sporadically reading it, just starting chapter 13. It’s a great historical account of Mt Washington and the Presidential range becoming a tourist attraction, blazing the trails, stories about the people involved, and the accidents and deaths that occurred there and why. I can’t see a suicide connection at all though. The topographical maps in it are so useful, though I have to use a magnifying glass to really examine them. We clearly picked the wrong trail to go up the first time we went– the one off of Jefferson Notch Rd; far too steep for a first timer. We drove up the auto road and hiked down to Lakes of the Clouds Hut and back. Next time we will try Crawford Path.
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March 31, 2016 at 8:03 pm
I’m glad some people are starting to read Not Without Peril. As a hiker local to the area it’s almost required reading. There is zero romanticizing death, and it is mainly accounts of people being caught in bad weather. I always personally felt this was put out there a bit more than it should have been in the suicide angle.
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April 1, 2016 at 12:13 am
What struck me most back in The ’80s when my family and I went there was the number of kids with T-shirts and some muling cases of beer on their backs! For many of us there’s little conception that for every 100′ of vertical climb that equates to walking 10mi north. By the time one reaches the summit of Washington, or probably any summit on the range, one has effectively traversed into the climes of Canadian tundra.
So The Murrays knew full well the dangers of the area, making the entire scenario around the spontaneous trip up there all the more bizarre. Maybe the romance of the area got the better of her?
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April 1, 2016 at 7:30 am
The dangers of the area…..! C’mon now, it is not dangerous here unless you ARE unfamiliar…..so her trip is not bizarre as far as that goes.
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April 1, 2016 at 2:09 pm
Mom: I hear ya on the topo maps sizes, I need a glass too. Got some good downloads here:
http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/maplocator/(ctype=areaDetails&xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd&carea=%24ROOT&layout=6_1_61_48&uiarea=2)/.do
I like the ESRi USA TOPO view, most like Howe’s maps.
John: Well, yeah! She wasn’t that familiar, if at all, with Bath, and with a crap car …
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April 1, 2016 at 2:36 pm
Mac, thanks for the link, very helpful! We do plan on going up there again this summer or early fall. The book really points out how unprepared out of town people who didn’t listen to good advice by locals ended up in tragic circumstances.
I’ve been up there (lived in Jersey all my life except college in WV and PA) many times, and I’ve never felt in any kind of danger. I never put myself in any dangerous situations either; never wandered around alone at night (or during the day for that matter) in an unfamiliar, sparsely populated place.
I don’t know how unfamiliar MM was with the area. I remember Clint had said in either his 1st or 2nd podcast that just the Oct prior she and her dad had vacationed in VT and drove to NH to hike West Bond and Bondcliff, which are right off of 112 on the other side of I-93, so they most likely drove right past the site where the car was found in Feb (according to Clint). Fred also said she was up there 4-5 times a year since she was a quite young, so I think there’s a good chance she’d been along that stretch of road where the car was found in Feb at least once before. I don’t know what to believe as far as the condition of her car; there have been different things said about it. I’m not convinced one way or the other yet whether it was her that night at the scene. I can only say the car made it somehow from Amherst to Haverhill….
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April 1, 2016 at 11:13 pm
Mom: Top maps aren’t easy to find via your public library, most are reference materials. Sought out such in ours last night and the librarian said they tossed most of those ‘cuz … yeah, you got it. The iNet. So, Good Thing The Fed has ’em up for us. Oh, and can’t recommend The Globe Pequot, Countryman and Falcon Presses for publishing these great guides ‘cuz no one else will. Has to be a fairly unprofitable niche, I dunno.
AMC’s Hut System is AWESOME. We got to the Hut of the Clouds and were treated to TURKEY. I saw some kids go up with water packs; looked as if they weighed close to 100lbs. Sure would love to go back. That’s one of the few positives about reading on all this, how great the northeast is for natural adventure.
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April 1, 2016 at 11:15 pm
D’Oh! Did it again. I MEANT to type,
“Oh, and can’t recommend The Globe Pequot, Countryman and Falcon Presses ENOUGH* for publishing these great guides ‘cuz no one else will.”
*Meaning, they’re awesomes.
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April 2, 2016 at 4:23 pm
Oh, one more thing. I’m only on Chp6, “John Keenan”. John Keenan was a newb to the area in 1912 and had taken a grunt job doing survey work. Keenan got lost near the summit of Washington his first day, seen once more two days later at the base, then disappeared for good.
Once I put the book down, it made me think: Of all the stories thus far, this one comes closest to the MM disappearance. Sightings, even a hitched ride, but as the driver described later, “this person (Keenan) was almost a ghost”. Drooling and droning, Keenan thought he was in his hometown and though his destination was the Glen House, he instead opted for another locale frequented by loggers. Seems to me he was half-mad with hypothermia and famished; probably had been without water for two whole days and wasn’t dressed at all for the situation. There was evidence he had fallen and it’s possible he suffered a concussion. All he asked of the driver was gum and a lift. He was dropped off at the logging camp and never seen again. A missed connection: Had the driver known the young man was missing, he would’ve taken him to the proper authorities. So close, so far. He never made it to the Glen House and later reports had him in a hospital in Quebec, a false lead enabled by a simple typo. In the end, he definitely was seen but lost a second time and permanently. The frustration and sense of loss must have been unbearable.
Kinda sounds an awful lot like this case: Missed connections, verified and unverified sightings, dumb mistakes, no resolution. A permanent state of mystery.
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March 14, 2016 at 4:26 pm
Can the gals of the board eliminate the abortion angle with circumstantial evidence please?
Personally, I’m not quite buying this story. Thin stuff. I don’t think she was that far along if in fact she was “with child”. VT is a liberal state. What is the cost of an abortion? Finally, Maura would NOT get a professional call indicating pregnancy information at midnight, even a voicemail, particularly when we can buy over-the-counter tests. I just can’t see her testing herself or receiving such a call on the job, resulting in that breakdown.
The pros: Computer searches. All them pizzas. ATM cash.
The cons: The liquor (Yes I realize the wave breaks both ways). Aren’t there clinics in Mass? Why Stowe? ATM cash recovered (counter to the latest JR post). The online behavior of those claiming a detailed account of this Stowe visit and the fact she never got to Stowe but instead crash-landed in Haverhill, NH.
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March 14, 2016 at 8:48 pm
Can’t eliminate it for you (sorry!), but I can give some female perspective to some of your thoughts…
Would she test herself at work? Yes, probably. That’s the type of thing that takes over your mind, and makes it almost impossible for you to function until you have an answer. Not to mention, she probably had a lot more privacy at work at that hour than she would have had in her shared, community dorm bathroom (at least I assume it was shared). She also could have tested herself before work, and just couldn’t hold it together any longer.
As far as getting a professional call at that time… maybe it was “off the record” -professional. I have heard chatter about MM & FM meeting a doctor on a family trip up north (it’s somewhere on this blog in the comments, I just saw it tonight)… maybe that doctor called from his cell phone after hours to deliver some news and/or answer her questions as a friend? Better yet – maybe “MY SISTER!” had gotten in touch with him and then he called Maura…? Idk, just speculating.
The pizzas: it’s college. Land of unhealthy, cheap choices. We’ve all been there.
ATM cash – interesting to think that maybe it was not Fred bouncing all over town taking out the $4000… was it MM? Not sure where to go with this one…
The computer searches — yeah I don’t know. I think if anything, maybe she was trying to find out what damage she may have already done to the baby, IF in fact she was pregnant. I don’t for a second believe that she was trying to cause a miscarriage OR that she had was researching for school. Pretty sure “alcohol effects on a fetus” is covered in 8th, 9th and 11th grade health class.
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March 14, 2016 at 9:35 pm
Not sure where the pregnant theory came from. Didnt she take her bc pills with her in her suitcase or clothes bag? Plus she was drinking pretty heavy for someone who may have found out they were pregnant. I say no, she wasn’t pregnant.
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March 15, 2016 at 7:06 am
From what I can tell, it just came from the computer searches she had allegedly done. I don’t really believe it either honestly, but can’t say for sure…
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March 15, 2016 at 11:30 am
I’ve been away for a while, just trying to catch up with everything here. I had emailed John a while back about this topic. I went thru a BSN program similar to Maura’s in PA in the late 70’s, so, granted, some of my experience may not be applicable, but I believe some may be relevant. The things that stick out to me, and I’m really not sure how it all may fit together or if it even does, are the following in chronological order: 1) Maura speaks with Bill after she speaks with Kathleen at work, then has the breakdown that causes the supervisor to think she shouldn’t finish her shift; 2) then she wrecks her dad’s new car, and when she calls Bill with her dad’s phone very early in the morning since she left her phone at the “party,” he says he thought something other than the accident was bothering her; 3) then she researches effects of alcohol on a fetus right before she drove out of state at the very beginning of a semester when it’s a time of intro to the course, review of normal anatomy and physiology relative to that course, maybe cover some more frequent non serious conditions, etc and not usually when you are getting into abnormalities, especially what she was researching; and 4) the computer searches and directions to Burlington and the call to Stowe, not anywhere near Haverhill where her car was found. So, I’m guessing that there’s at least a small possibility that she found out she was pregnant and could have been planning to seek an abortion in Burlington and then stay around Stowe to heal for a few days before returning. My questions regarding this are: did Fred know and is this what Sara knew that she told Fred about and then said she’d never speak of again? To some this may seem that it wouldn’t need to be kept secret for 12 years now, or maybe for their family it is. I could be going off in a completely wrong tangent here. But whether it was or wasn’t the reason for her trip, it seems something went horribly awry somewhere, somehow, along the way.
After just watching John’s rebuttal to the spreecast (which I haven’t seen/heard yet– trying to find it) I agree with just about everything he said. I think there’s any number of places, opportunities, and reasons she could have been abducted, the authorities are seemingly involved in some kind of cover up for some reason, and there may be some other issue or event that we have no or too little info about yet. I so wish we or someone could put all these pieces together so Fred and the family could have a truthful answer. Being a parent of 3, my heart especially goes out to him.
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March 15, 2016 at 1:36 pm
Hi Mom,
The Spreecast is here:
http://www.spreecast.com/events/missing-maura-murray-live-show–2
(Although, it’s a $1.99 a pop now.)
With any luck, T&L will post this to their YouTube page like the last live show.
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March 15, 2016 at 1:59 pm
“(Although, it’s a $1.99 a pop now.)”
What’s up with that? I looked into that yesterday and balked. The other one from the fall was already on YouTube® so I never looked into that SpreeCast®. It’s not that I can’t afford it, I just don’t wanna bother.
So I did it backwards; I’ve seen the rebuttal and it’s not really necessary to see the SpreeCast®, although it would prove helpful.
Did they charge for the first live SpreeCast®? Doncha just lerv my annoying habit to trademark® everything®?
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March 15, 2016 at 2:03 pm
Thanks for the link, BLP, I’ll wait and see if T&L put it on youtube…
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March 15, 2016 at 2:07 pm
In other news, “Bootleg Pass” would make a GREAT name for a C+W band.
OK, back to the discussion.
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March 15, 2016 at 2:49 pm
The charge occurred ~2 days after the live shows in both instances. (I think it’s to cover the cost to archive it.)
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March 15, 2016 at 8:57 pm
So, if “Jeremy Rathblun” IS telling the truth, that means it points to The Red Truck, a wood hauler, and the reason LE wanted items back from the family in June.
Where are logging trails close to Haverhill?
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March 16, 2016 at 10:25 am
Yikes if it was a logging trail in 2004 it very well could be someone’s driveway now if the woodlot was sold.
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March 16, 2016 at 2:48 pm
Wait, Boots … this guy’s cred went down a notch today …
Jeremy Rathbun: I have reported this stuff to Brian Flagg and 2 other Fish & Game officers when they were at the Warren Village Store….Do you think your cousin followed up…if he did then you would have seen dogs in the area but there were no dogs……I was the Individual who found these items and have information for SOMEONE WHO WILL TAKE THIS SERIOUSELY Because Fish & Game and police have proved otherwise!
Jeremy Rathbun: I honestly believe I can identify the gentleman in the red truck but there are those who that do not want to accept where the facts lead…its shocking but unfortunate…it fits with what is and is not being said
Jeremy Rathbun: Send your cousin and ill bring him to the area…simple as that! They do not listen…period! WITH A DOG! No BS….I have had to wait for my daughter to train her dog for recovery because no one would bring the dog except FRED and we all know how the authorities treat him….
Jeremy Rathbun: So, I ask, where is your cousin????????????? LETS GO!
Jeremy Rathbun: And just so EVERYONE knows YES, I am afraid of the New Hampshire Police as they are corrupt and dirty as they want to be…..if they want you to be quiet…they will make you!
End of recitation … (My words.)
Why is this suspect?
1) He now claims it was HE who found the clothes.
2) He sat on this evidence 12 years?!?
3) He’s talking to himself.
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March 16, 2016 at 2:52 pm
NO…..this evidence has not been sat on for 12 years. It was all reported to LE.
Did LE do anything is the real question here..!!!!!!
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March 16, 2016 at 4:01 pm
John, so you knew this? For how long?
Where is this logging road?
Can we say this is a bonafide leak?
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March 16, 2016 at 4:09 pm
it is not a leak…it was looked into and pushed to the side. This is the way it has been for 12 years.
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March 16, 2016 at 4:14 pm
Oh no … my heart just fell.
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March 16, 2016 at 4:18 pm
Has anyone close to MM verified the items are/were indeed hers?
Or did this info never gain that kind of traction?
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March 16, 2016 at 9:24 pm
I was looking at Google Earth and it’s ~14 miles as the crow flies from the crash site to Warren. It made me wonder how she may have gotten there.
Then I noticed the power line corridor running north-south about 2 miles west of the WBC.
Is there a snowmobile trail near the WBC that hooks up to the power line corridor?
The log mentioned a snowmobiler pulled over, didn’t it?
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March 16, 2016 at 9:32 pm
According to the theory presented, Maura wasn’t the one behind the wheel of the Saturn.
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March 16, 2016 at 9:50 pm
was not my intent to blend anything, sorry…
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March 21, 2016 at 2:04 pm
After further consideration…
There was still a Saturn and a girl at the WBC and items that may or may not have belonged to MM were still found in Warren, regardless of the theory presented.
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March 21, 2016 at 6:54 pm
We don’t know that items were found. That is 100% unverified. I have since discounted this theory for the most part but, as always, make notes.
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March 21, 2016 at 8:39 pm
“We don’t know that items were found.”
Understood, ‘cuz again, we’re not entitled. Pretty much our focus is to “watch the skies”, if you catch the drift, and be the boots on the ground, if we’re so inclined and are up that way and accessible. Otherwise, there’s really not much else we can do.
Boots: I’m not resigned to any one theory either nor will twist to suit. But can bend if things can fall into place sensibly.
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March 16, 2016 at 3:31 pm
so this is legit?
“a navy blue sweatshirt with two initials on the tag of M.M. The initials were in black per. marker. Also in same area champion socks(female) white and blue. The navy sweatshirt had a logo on the lower portion and was solid white…..Red Ford pick-up year approx. 94,95, 96 f-150.”
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March 16, 2016 at 4:38 pm
Mac, not sure if you saw my post on this subject in the other thread, but I spoke extensively with Mr. Rathbun.
https://truthseekersinvestigationssearch4mauramurray.wordpress.com/2016/03/15/03-15-16-for-both-of-us/#comment-2696
Fred was told about these items, claimed Maura did that to her sweatshirts, and searched the area with this person and others later. The clothing wasn’t found during these later searches. This is all according to him, and there’s much I’m unclear on as well.
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March 16, 2016 at 4:55 pm
Wow, thanks.
Now for that logging road location…
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March 18, 2016 at 5:01 pm
See my comments below, pls, Alex.
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March 18, 2016 at 6:25 pm
Sara, I hope you keep posting, but feel free to find me on there.
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March 17, 2016 at 10:39 am
Boots, it could be that you read something dug up here earlier on a very short, not long-lived commentary page. Now, I think it’s under the “Two of Us” post, but there last night I read a comment that referenced Warren, NH and how someone claimed to see something.
From Uaddit.com:
“potential witness
“I personally have been searching the hills of NH since the so called accident. Through these eyes and other senses this author has witnessed some very leading information. Such as a red truck once owned by a family member disappearing after it is witnessed in warren NH. The DMV to this day has no record of where the vehicle went. The family member that should be investigated has family in NH….thats a promise!
“Guest | 12-28-2010 at 10:08 AM”
Could “Guest” be one of the three witnesses Jeremy Rathbun of whom he alluded? Or is it Rathbun himself?
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March 18, 2016 at 5:48 pm
Then that would be the same person, Sara. Good eye, and seems to fit what was told to me by the ex-officer. Just for my own clarification, do you have a link to the report you found this in?
After talking with the ex-officer in question (who is supposedly a cousin of one of the other posters on that Facebook thread according to Rathbun, Mac, to answer that question for you), I began to take this account with even more of a grain of salt. I do make note of it all though, per usual.
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March 18, 2016 at 6:11 pm
I’m not going to post anymore, but I’d like to keep in touch on the subject. Mind if I find you on FB?
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March 18, 2016 at 6:20 pm
I am just asking that we Not post peoples personal info on the blog. Please discuss behind the scenes and then base your comments here on those discussions.
Thank You
John
I just do not want to this to become REDDIT….Puke..!
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March 18, 2016 at 6:03 pm
Please keep peoples personal business off the blog. Much appreciated.
Discuss that behind the scenes please.
Thank You
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March 18, 2016 at 6:09 pm
This is a good point and is a fine line we walk discussing some of this here. Since we’ve cleared that up, I’m fine with these comments being removed.
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